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Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

nytimes.com

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Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#91

Post by stevenbedrick »

advisedwang wrote: post #8
sitkack wrote: post #5

If only those managers had joined the union.

Unfortunately those in a " supervisor" role are explicitly excluded from the main US labor protection [1]. Amazon could fire them anyway. [1] https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right...

That NLRB page does say that "supervisors who have been discriminated against for refusing to violate the NLRA may be covered", so I wonder if that might apply in this case? I suppose there's no way to tell from the outside, but if _I_ were one of those fired managers, I would be looking into it...

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#92

Post by infiniteL0Op »

wardedVibe wrote: post #63
donthellbanme wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know those help wanted commercials Amazon floods media with, "We pay $15 to start, blah, blah. Start a new career." I just assumed they were always hiring because of consistent growth. According to the guy (forget his name. Wears a gold chain.) representing the union; Amazon fires a lot of employees. Many for no reason. (I once read a restaurant success book. Everything he recommended made sence, except one, and…

Another benefit of firing workers early is it increases churn, which makes forming unions in the first place difficult, since it relies on trust between workers.

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#93

Post by syshum »

tyingq wrote: post #15

My guess is that they didn't fire them for "letting it happen" exactly. They probably fired them because the employees would view those managers as someone they recently defeated over a major issue. Which changes the power dynamic in a way that's distinct from the presence of the union itself. It's a weak attempt to get some of that back.

"letting it happen" could be many contexts as well, letting is happen could mean that the managers were soo terrible at their jobs that they allowed issues to fester to the point where the employees were disgruntles enough to vote in a union.

Happy employees do not vote to unionize. The "hot take" here is that Amazon management wanted to the managers to some how play hardball with the union, in my experience with issues like this normally management does the opposite and trys to "kill it with kindness" and attempts to stave off unionization by trying to resolve the complaints of the work force while balancing the needs of the company.

Sometimes the workforce is just too far apart from where management wants to be then I union is likely to form, but my guess is upper management at amazon feels these middle managers did not do enough to address the workforce's concerns.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#94

Post by Ekaros »

Bilal_io wrote: post #27
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's confusing why investors haven't pushed harder for AWS to be spun-off into its own entity.

Why would they do that when one entity's losses can be used as a tax write-off for the other entity's profits.

Losing and investing money are different things. It's all fine for future to spend money on new warehouses, distribution hubs and better software. But there is expectation that this will at least increase revenue if not the profits. If it does not it is just waste that any company is better off with.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#95

Post by mynameisash »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #11

> Several were veterans of the company, with more than six years of experience I think it's sad that we have an industry, where someone with six years' experience, is considered a "veteran." But it sounds like Amazon is sending a message to managers of other warehouses, to go as low as possible, to fight unionization. Expect things to get ugly.

When I left Amazon (as an SWE), with about 11mo of tenure, I was apparently at about median longevity. Yes, some of it is their growth, but a significant reason is also that they churn through people unnecessary. It's ridiculous to me that a big tech company treats people so terribly and continues to get away with it.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#96

Post by readthenotes1 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #77
sieabahlpark wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if it was literally covered up systemically at each warehouse where the issues lie? They're not omniscient.

> Not if it was literally covered up systemically at each warehouse where the issues lie? So, you think that they managed to systemically cover up their misdeeds from higher management before the election, but conveniently failed to continue that coverup after the union election. I mean, sure, you concoct a strained narrative which makes this a noble move by Amazon’s higher management, but...why strain to do that?

I don't find that a strained narrative at all.

-- I once wrote a status report where I reported that I thought something would be a problem blocking my progress if it weren't resolved.

My manager's status report said that there might be a issue.

His managers report said everything was on track. --

If you don't think that the upper management got into hot water and then started paying a lot more attention to their on-site managers after the Union vote, you and I live in different worlds.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#97

Post by Ekaros »

blamazon wrote: post #30
someweirdperson wrote: post #26

"fired"? don't they have time limited contracts, that include a golden parachute in case of early termination? Does Amazon manage to even treat senior managers badly?

Senior warehouse manager =\= Senior corporate manager

Part of middle-management with very little power outside following corporate policies. Might be able to do something not outright sanctioned, but the position really isn't much different from the workers in grand scheme of things.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#98

Post by tyingq »

syshum wrote: post #93
tyingq wrote: post #15

My guess is that they didn't fire them for "letting it happen" exactly. They probably fired them because the employees would view those managers as someone they recently defeated over a major issue. Which changes the power dynamic in a way that's distinct from the presence of the union itself. It's a weak attempt to get some of that back.

"letting it happen" could be many contexts as well, letting is happen could mean that the managers were soo terrible at their jobs that they allowed issues to fester to the point where the employees were disgruntles enough to vote in a union. Happy employees do not vote to unionize. The "hot take" here is that Amazon management wanted to the managers to some how play hardball with the union, in my experience with iss…

That would make sense to me if this particular warehouse/region/whatever was characterized as having notably worse conditions than others. Reading about Amazon warehouses, it seems like a pretty universally bad working environment, regardless of which one.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#99

Post by coliveira »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #41
Sevii wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people blame unions for killing the American dominance of car manufacturing worldwide. And the general de-industrialization of the US. It was a big hit to peoples conceptualization of the country.

How do they explain VAG being the biggest or nearly the biggest car manufacturer in the world then? Strong unions are a big feature of the German industrial landscape. It's not unions that killed America dominance of car manufacturing it's the them versus us zero-sum attitude that pervades US life. Both the manufacturers and the unions in the US seem guilty in this respect.

The US is incapable of thinking outside of the "us versus them" box. For example, they don't see other countries as independent, they only see them as alies or enemies. It is a fifth grade mentality that permeates the whole country.

Re: Amazon abruptly fires senior managers tied to unionized warehouse

#100

Post by coliveira »

joshe wrote: post #39

To me a more reasonable explanation than any in the article is that after losing the vote, Amazon looked into the warehouse and decided part of the problem was that the managers were making the situation worse. This could have been that the rsi injury complaints were true and unaddressed promptly. Or that the managers came off as cold in communications. Or 5 other things they could have done better.

No, this is just the beginning of their counterstrike. I fully expect Amazon to close that warehouse as soon as they legally can.
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