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Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

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Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#321

Post by acd »

whazor wrote: post #293

I really wish cars removed from residential areas and inner city, basically anywhere people are walking around. It makes self driving much easier and also eliminate the need for parking. You would walk a bit more (like five minutes), to a bus stop and be picked up by a car. Much healthier and probably causes less congestion too. Within city's and residential areas you can have nice bike and walking paths and more roo…

Car company combined with out of city center parking company combined with bus / electric rental bikes.

This is a much more modern city design pattern!

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#322

Post by sangnoir »

icelancer wrote: post #303
zydex wrote: post #281

A point I commonly hear made from both Tesla and Comma.ai for example is that Lidar is far too expensive with Waymo's vehicle costing a total of $200,000 and that cameras alone are sufficient for full self driving. I do think that cameras alone are probably sufficient for full self-driving but every time I hear this point I think to myself that self driving progress is moving so slowly on the camera-only front that L…

I work in a parallel industry where capturing motion at high speeds is critical, and in the last two decades, the cost of LIDAR and RADAR has barely come down - and the technical specs haven't gotten much better - while the cost of optical continues to absolutely crash through the floor and technical specs skyrocket. Mobile phones and laptops are the obvious main reason for this. Optical tracking (cameras) have econo…

> I work in a parallel industry where capturing motion at high speeds is critical, and in the last two decades, the cost of LIDAR and RADAR has barely come down

This doesn't track for me. What was the price of the cheapest Velodyne LiDAR unit 12 years ago, and what is the price of the cheapest today? My not-in-the-industry searching says a Velodyne unit cost $75,000[1][2] 12 years ago. IIRC, estimates of Google's inhouse LiDAR sensor (which is not for sale) was about $10-20,000 per unit - this was about 5 years ago. Currently, Velodyne is selling(?) the Velarray H800[3] solid-state unit that had a $500 price-point target[4][5] during development. How does this square with your assertion that the cost of LiDAR has barely come down?

Edit: I checked, it was precisely 5 years ago and Google claimed[6] that it cut the cost of LiDAR by 90 percent! I think you were wrong to say LiDAR costs have barely come down.

1. https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-ouster-lidar-20171...

2. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/10/the-technology-behind-t...

3.https://velodynelidar.com/products/velarray-h800/

4. https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2020/11/13/velody...

5. https://www.reuters.com/article/velodyne-lidar-tech/velodyne...

6. https://www.businessinsider.com/googles-waymo-reduces-lidar-...

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#323

Post by verisimi »

pigtailgirl wrote: post #130
verisimi wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its possible to make an argument for lots of things, in the name of safety. That it should be impossible to have anonymity online, etc because of child abuse, or terrorism, or some other action. The safety argument cannot balance the fact that we also need freedom of speech and thought. We are heading into a world where the power balance is going to become so wildly asymmetrical - the government will know eve…

you might be right you might be wrong - however I suspect you'll find there are many of us out here who are just not willing to let ourselves get so worked up about such a ridged view of a possible future - doubt you'll find many on HN who are ignorant to the signs - i'm certain many are concerned about the trends - that doesn't meant people necessarily disagree with your thought - we just may disagree with your outl…

Thank you for your thoughts and concern. Let me say I am at peace with myself, I've come to terms with life, mortality. I do fear that the future will be neo-feudal, techno-slavery very shortly though, if people don't start to push back against the governance system + the corporations that run it.

I differ on a few points to you. I don't think the government has turned, I think it has always been this bad! It has always been full of parasitic middlemen that look to make a fortune off the people doing the actual work - people in government are the worst of us, while pretending, nay demanding, that they are portrayed as 'the best of us'. Anyway, I think its that we are at the end of ... something - technology + political immorality seem to be combining in a potentially unpleasant way.

Also, I think the governance approach that has been taken is very incremental - the plans are slow and stealthy - we are disclosed a bit at a time, but never so much that it causes a rebellion. We became aware of 3 letter agencies, then that they were sometimes nefarious, then that they were spying on us, then we had travel constraints, camera everywhere passes to travel, etc, etc - the direction of travel is only one way - towards technocratic governance. None of those steps on their own tripped enough alarm bells to prompt anything more than hand wringing - but if you look back over the years - say 20 years - you'd never believe where we are now. Nor how we got here. That's the power of incrementalism.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#324

Post by t0mas88 »

sjcoles wrote: post #43
daenz wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if 40mph is a magic number that is a good tradeoff between speed and survivability (and injury-related out-of-court settlements)

Has to do with the limitations of radar. Radar will fail >40mph for stopped vehicles or detect them too late to stop. Honda and Tesla are working to remove radars and go vision only for speed control. If you have a car with a AEB or CMBS (automatic emergency braking, crash mitigation braking system) the owners manual has a ton of fine print about it only making crashes less severe, not preventing them outright.

The detection range for radar is more than 200m, you can stop from speeds above 100mph in that distance. And the radar sensor automatically includes relative speed information on the target (doppler shift) which vision doesn't so it's easier to figure out whether something is stationary or not. So I don't believe this "vision only will fix it all" story.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#325

Post by joe_guy »

hedora wrote: post #315
joe_guy wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And this happens regularly Do you have an example to demonstrate regularity that's not nearly 60 years old?

Thesr lawyers claim they got a multi million settlement out of a manufacturer of a defective automobile recently: https://www.raphaelsonlaw.com/questions/how-much-to-expect-f... Since it's out-of-court, there is probably a non disclosure agreement. Anyway, it happens enough for lawyers to think it's worth targeting the cases, at least.

Honestly, I didn't read that link extensively. It went straight to a sleezey looking "How Much to Expect From a Car Accident Settlement?" That didn't sound like it justified the usage of "regularly" in the statement I responded to.

Feel free to correct me on how its related to the use of "regularly" tho.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#326

Post by verisimi »

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #141
verisimi wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Geofenced" That's the word. That's the plan. We will be geofenced, there will be a kill switch. You will not be able to go where you want, except if the government allows it. In fact, I think Uber is the best example of geofencing we have for the long run. In the medium term, self-driving cars you still own will fill the gap.

Yeah, so much unlike the present, where you can go wherever you want (if the government has built a road to do so).

That's actually quite funny to me. In a dark, ironic way...

The government designed/authorised the solution - roads + cars. They decide to spend lots of money on this. They got rid of earlier public solutions - eg trams, closed train lines, etc. They could have invested more on public infrastructure - but opted for facilitating private transport.

But now they are walking this back! Around here they are decreasing roads, especially recently. We have 2 lane roads, where one lane has been closed to create cycle lanes. We have roads that have been entirely pedestrianised. All this has made traffic worse - and this is the plan. We are meant to get off the roads and ... cycle? Take the bus? There are actually no alternative viable forms of transport.

So - the government implements, then de-implements whatever solutions it likes. The public investments using money paid by the previous generation of tax payers, is actively being worked against by this generation of government!

So, no, I'm not cheering the government spend.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#327

Post by pgorczak »

mhh__ wrote: post #86
KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #49

This is powered by nvidia i think: https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2021/04/16/mercedes-benz-eqs-h... This means if mercedes have it, so will many other automakers since nvidia sells to everyone.

With these press releases they can mean anything from "It's our tech but rebadged" to "We sold them a CAD program" so not always clear.

It’s probably something more. A recent article said 40% of Mercedes-Benz’ revenue from autonomous driving options will be going to Nvidia, starting 2024. Source in German: https://archive.ph/Gs9UD

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#328

Post by pfortuny »

tiahura wrote: post #268
Traster wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just from a management perspective, even if you're super-confident in your engineers (which you shouldn't be), doing anything other than a very limited slow roll out would be negligent. This is a tectonic shift in liability. It's one thing if you sell 1,000,000 cars and 100,000 get in an accident. It's actually much worse to sell 10,000 cars and 1,000 of them get in an accident and the company is liable .

Legally, they’re all liable. If your product is unreasonably dangerous and defective, and that defect is the proximate cause of injury to another, you’re responsible. I know nothing of German law, but from a US legal perspective, it appears that MB is just promising what they already have to do - compensate those harmed by defects in their products.

There are accidents which are not due to defects or unreasonable dangers in the product.

Shit happens and responsibility is not necessarily due to defects/malfeasance/unreasonable risks. There ara honest-to-God accidents. And you are still liable.

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#329

Post by hutzlibu »

tiahura wrote: post #268
Traster wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just from a management perspective, even if you're super-confident in your engineers (which you shouldn't be), doing anything other than a very limited slow roll out would be negligent. This is a tectonic shift in liability. It's one thing if you sell 1,000,000 cars and 100,000 get in an accident. It's actually much worse to sell 10,000 cars and 1,000 of them get in an accident and the company is liable .

Legally, they’re all liable. If your product is unreasonably dangerous and defective, and that defect is the proximate cause of injury to another, you’re responsible. I know nothing of German law, but from a US legal perspective, it appears that MB is just promising what they already have to do - compensate those harmed by defects in their products.

No, the competition explicitely tells the driver to be ready to take over any second, they promise full self driving only in the ads, but not the contract.

So when a accident happens, the "driver" can be blamed for not reacting.

Mercedes offers full self driving including legal responsibility. You are not oblieged to watch the road or the car while driving (with the current tight limits)

Re: Mercedes-Benz says Level 3 self-driving option ready to roll

#330

Post by asdff »

icelancer wrote: post #303
zydex wrote: post #281

A point I commonly hear made from both Tesla and Comma.ai for example is that Lidar is far too expensive with Waymo's vehicle costing a total of $200,000 and that cameras alone are sufficient for full self driving. I do think that cameras alone are probably sufficient for full self-driving but every time I hear this point I think to myself that self driving progress is moving so slowly on the camera-only front that L…

I work in a parallel industry where capturing motion at high speeds is critical, and in the last two decades, the cost of LIDAR and RADAR has barely come down - and the technical specs haven't gotten much better - while the cost of optical continues to absolutely crash through the floor and technical specs skyrocket. Mobile phones and laptops are the obvious main reason for this. Optical tracking (cameras) have econo…

My robot vacuum cleaner from xiaomi has lidar. It's coming at the consumer level fast.
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