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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#331

Post by jtbayly »

dmitriid wrote: post #135
jtbayly wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "trivial" solution doesn't work. And they thus had to do the non -trivial thing and write their own custom text renderer. If I'm right in my reading, the author of the tweet is wrong to complain about them saying it's "trivial," because they never did.

A custom text renderer was exactly the trivial solution suggested and demonstrated to them when they claimed it was extremely hard and required a doctoral research.

I know nothing about this fight, let alone having a dog in it. But I'm getting downvoted for understanding English.

For my point it doesn't matter if they are in the wrong, if it was easier than they claim, if they are rude, etc. All I'm saying is that the complaint on Twitter is that they now called something "trivial" that they said wasn't simple or easy before. They clearly didn't do that.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#332

Post by tdub311 »

aliswe wrote: post #251
bena wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, DHowett's and LHeckler's responses were kind of dickish, but Casey's own words, tone, and attitude aren't doing him any favors either. Casey happens to be right on the technical issue in this case and people are just glossing over all the ways in which he was also wrong. Now, personally, I believe it was the WT Team's responsibility to let it go as they're representatives of a larger organization and as such ho…

Maybe Casey is an antihero?

Or a handmade hero?

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#333

Post by lhecker »

dangerface wrote: post #316
lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

> Casey's suggestion wasn't unique to me, as a significant number of other terminals do it exactly that way in OpenGl, something I was quite familiar with already. In your reply to Casey you made it sound like you where unaware when you say things like "I'm somewhat surprised that other accelerated terminals aren't already doing this" is OpenGL not accelerated? What am I missing here?

You got the wrong person, I didn't write that. Once it became obvious that it's the only way to solve the issue and that a different use of Direct2D can't help with this, I implemented a prototype based on my pre-existing knowledge and explained how it works to the team.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#334

Post by vorpalhex »

thaway2839 wrote: post #290
ethbr0 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When CMD is your benchmark... (In all fairness, PowerShell has a lot of good ideas)

I get the feeling that there's a bunch of people working for, or being paid by, Microsoft who really love functional programming. Some of Microsoft's best outputs comes from those teams/folks. It could just be a coincidence/confirmation bias, so I wonder if there's actually something to that.

If you care about programming enough to really have preferences on things like functional or OO or other kinds of "deep" topics, then you're invested.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#335

Post by Big0_nlogn »

lhecker wrote: post #191
TIPSIO wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is way above my pay grade. Just don’t take anything personal. Being defensive / know best is in this industry everywhere at all levels and organizations. Being humble in general is hard, being humble in code reviews is harder, being humble to Internet comments in any forum… sometimes impossible. Then repeat that with two super genius experts - eek. You find everyone is usually trying their best if you ever have…

Oh yeah, for sure. I can't tell you how much I regret being that defensive about something that benign. This was certainly a life lesson. I've apologized to Casey in person before (well, to my best ability) and I'll apologize again if given the opportunity to do so. I just wish people wouldn't say I'm taking credit, when it's an old, widely used idea and when I spent such an incredible amount of time reading and unde…

It's not that you were taking credit, or that you were somehow wrong, it's that you initially put down Casey's idea so vehemently and so publicly. I think the lesson is, if you're going to step into the public arena, be humble, or be very, very right.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#336

Post by TimSchumann »

phaistra wrote: post #244
bena wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, DHowett's and LHeckler's responses were kind of dickish, but Casey's own words, tone, and attitude aren't doing him any favors either. Casey happens to be right on the technical issue in this case and people are just glossing over all the ways in which he was also wrong. Now, personally, I believe it was the WT Team's responsibility to let it go as they're representatives of a larger organization and as such ho…

How was Casey wrong?

Coming from someone who really likes the guy;

Casey's code game and logic game, quite strong.

His tact game and empathy game, not as strong.

Not trying to denigrate, just observing.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#337

Post by zamalek »

HideousKojima wrote: post #188
zamalek wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just create a PR, instead of a from-scratch grandstanding repo? This is a situation where tu quoque really doesn't smell like a logical fallacy. There is a lot of fuss about "being right" over "being helpful."

I'm assuming he thought his PR would be rejected, given their reaction to his initial questions about the issue: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/10362

A closed PR would have been even more damning for Microsoft. Especially given that Casey could have provided apples-apples benchmark results - not, what amounts to, a micro-benchmark.

From my perspective, there are two reasons why someone would build an entire project instead of opening a PR:

* Merely to be able to point and it and say, "see? see? I was right!" How obnoxiously childish.

* Implementing his ideas into a mature/non-greenfields codebase wasn't in-fact "extremely simple."

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#338

Post by john_moscow »

lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

You need to handle your PR better, dude. Whenever you speak out, always get a chance to acknowledge the help/ideas of others, unless they are your competitors. Make sure your work isn't understated though. Like "Turns out, many users complained about and even a few shared patches (, ). We even had a conversation with Mr. Smith suggesting , so we finally took a good look at it and made a universal solution that covers all the bases".

It's not like you will get less credit for mentioning it - you still delivered the solution and that is what counts. But if you mention other people, it opens a few doors:

* They will like you and will be more likely to share further suggestions or code snippets (that will help you build your promotion package).

* The management will see you as a person who knows how to work with people, so you'll get a higher chance to get into the management track.

* Once you discuss a technical solution with somebody, and don't leave them in dust like an asshole, you get basic mutual trust. If you ever lose your job, they might gladly recommend you to their company, or vice versa.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#339

Post by [deleted] »

smcl wrote: post #312
DHowett wrote: post #30

Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team. Hi! This tweet misses the mark only a little bit; in a previous blog post, we apologized[1] pretty frankly to everyone involved in this discussion. I'll admit that we didn't list him by name, but neither did we list the other handful of folks involved. We should have. In turn, Casey rightly did not acknowledge it except to tell his followers that it was not a real a…

> Another day, another Casey post dunking on my team Man, you have to take criticism better than that. Remember, we don't know anything about this other than the tweets plus these replies from you and your colleague here on HN. So the tweets honestly didn't seem to describe a particularly bad problem, the only thing that stood out to me was the fake-name-on-discord thing which is yet to be substantiated. I was willin…

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