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$35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

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Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#81

Post by [deleted] »

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #68
Ansil849 wrote: post #30

> She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. I don't understand. Museums in the West are full of looted ancient art [1]. Why are they allowed to keep it, but this woman cannot keep this one item? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/learning/should-museums-r...

Museums shouldn't be full of looted treasures, museums should be full of treasures of the culture who built the museum. It is an injustice that any significant artifact is not in the custodianship of the culture it belongs to and when the infrastructure is in place to preserve the items, they should be returned to the community they came from.

[deleted]

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#82

Post by [deleted] »

tpmx wrote: post #4

Back at home, Young had a problem: She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. She couldn't sell it. And giving it back to its rightful owners was a lot harder than it sounds. “At that point, I realized I was probably going to need some help,” Young says. “I was probably going to need an attorney.” So she hired a lawyer in New York who specializes in international art law, Leila Amin…

[deleted]

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#83

Post by newman8r »

Arainach wrote: post #20
tomcam wrote: post #19

What amazes me about all these stories is the ridiculously low prices the thrift store charged. Here in the Seattle area, everything seems to grossly overpriced in thrift stores.

Goodwill in particular moves items between markets and prices them based on the local economy. Gone are the days of 2010 when you could walk into the Bellevue Goodwill and find lightly used designer clothing that some retired Microsoft engineer was tired of. Now everything's priced higher than eBay and there's no reason to stop by. Everyone else wants to be a "Boutique" and charge high end prices for used goods. Blam…

You can still find great deals at university surplus sales. more fun than goodwill ever was. Scored a $1500 RF amp for $25 at one of those.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#84

Post by robonerd »

IAmGraydon wrote: post #46
phs318u wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give it back to whom exactly? How does she know who the "rightful" owner is without knowing its provenance? Possessing looted art is not a good look and neither is transmitting (wittingly or not) to a party that isn't the rightful owner. She did the smart thing.

The article clearly states it was from here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompejanum

That wiki page and the article clearly state this museum was built in the 1840s. So what is your basis for asserting this sculpture was stolen by nazis?

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#85

Post by na85 »

Ansil849 wrote: post #38
anitil wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I recommend a podcast called 'Stuff the British Stole' by Marc Fenell (aka 'That Movie ... Guy'). It looks at exactly this, including situations where an artefact only exists _because_ it was stolen. http://www.marcfennell.com/stolen (Sorry I couldn't find the RSS feed)

Quoted post unavailable.

> a posteriori justification

I believe you're looking for the phrase "post hoc", because a posteriori refers to knowledge that can only be gained from application of a test of some sort, whether logical or scientific.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#86

Post by eloff »

Ansil849 wrote: post #63
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Not committing theft, or returning shit you stole, is considered "woke" now?

It's not shit you stole, not even shit your ancestors stole, it's shit someone who once occupied the same territory that you now occupy stole during a state of war.

I think for the same reason we have a Statute of Limitations on property crimes, you shouldn't have to return anything. Returning it would be very woke indeed.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#87

Post by readbeard »

Ansil849 wrote: post #30

> She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. I don't understand. Museums in the West are full of looted ancient art [1]. Why are they allowed to keep it, but this woman cannot keep this one item? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/learning/should-museums-r...

I agree, I don't understand the principle here. And what about things like the Horses of Saint Mark [0], which were looted by Venetians after the sack of Constantinople in 1204?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_of_Saint_Mark

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#88

Post by rectang »

MomoXenosaga wrote: post #60
Ansil849 wrote: post #30

> She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. I don't understand. Museums in the West are full of looted ancient art [1]. Why are they allowed to keep it, but this woman cannot keep this one item? [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/learning/should-museums-r...

Quoted post unavailable.

> Is Italy, a country 200 years old, the heir of ancient Rome?

This is an interesting question. The answer is hard to pin down precisely, but sometimes when there is a change of governance the culture continues to exist. For instance, if something was produced in Japan before World War II, Japan remains the heir even though a new constitution is now in place. Similar with something produced in Moscow during the Soviet era: Russia is the heir. But something produced in Kyiv during the Soviet era, Ukraine is the heir.

> The easiest woke thing

Please don't derail discussion with inflammatory culture war, it's against the HN guidelines.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#89

Post by toss1 »

Thorrez wrote: post #21
LanceH wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both for establishing the right of ownership of who she is sending it to, as well as requiring indemnification on the transfer should someone else step forward claiming it. Worst case would be that she sends it to someone over there, then someone else shows up showing they own it. Imagine if someone in the US ended up showing they owned it and the Germans say tough luck. She would then have to defend herself wherever…

>Imagine if someone in the US ended up showing they owned it She bought it from Goodwill. What benefit would anything think they could get from suing her if she didn't get a payout? >She would then have to defend herself wherever the claimant chooses (possibly even the US), with no actual object should a court decide she has to produce it. How can the court tell her to produce it if she obviously doesn't have it? She…

All of that may be true, but none of it means that you will not find yourself on the receiving end of such claims, and in the USA, the cost of your defense is all on you (iirc in England, it is loser pays both attny costs).

So, yes, best to get proper expert advice, even when you are acting in good faith, as there is nothing preventing others from acting in bad faith.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#90

Post by teawrecks »

Ansil849 wrote: post #51
teawrecks wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said it "justified" the theft.

> No one said it "justified" the theft. Nor did I say that anyone said that it "justified" the theft. What I said was that that line of argumentation "sounds like an a posteriori justification for stealing".

So to sum it up this exchange:

Person1: A

You: This sounds like B, which is fallacious.

Person2: A

You: Again...this sounds like B, which is fallacious.

Me: No one is claiming B

You: I never said anyone claimed B. I said this sounds like B.

Sound about right?

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