$35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII • Hacker News Board

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#21

Post by Thorrez » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:47 AM UTC

LanceH wrote: post #10

tpmx wrote: post #4

Back at home, Young had a problem: She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. She couldn't sell it. And giving it back to its rightful owners was a lot harder than it sounds. “At that point, I realized I was probably going to need some help,” Young says. “I was probably going to need an attorney.” So she hired a lawyer in New York who specializes in international art law, Leila Amin…

Both for establishing the right of ownership of who she is sending it to, as well as requiring indemnification on the transfer should someone else step forward claiming it. Worst case would be that she sends it to someone over there, then someone else shows up showing they own it. Imagine if someone in the US ended up showing they owned it and the Germans say tough luck. She would then have to defend herself wherever…

>Imagine if someone in the US ended up showing they owned it

She bought it from Goodwill. What benefit would anything think they could get from suing her if she didn't get a payout?

>She would then have to defend herself wherever the claimant chooses (possibly even the US), with no actual object should a court decide she has to produce it.

How can the court tell her to produce it if she obviously doesn't have it? She was acting in good faith. She bought it for $35, and (assuming she got no payout) gave it to who she thought the rightful owner was for free. Why would anyone think she did anything wrong or owes anyone anything? She got nothing from this. If the museum owns it wrongly, they should sue the museum.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#22

Post by causality0 » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:47 AM UTC

Thorrez wrote: post #13

tpmx wrote: post #4

Back at home, Young had a problem: She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it. She couldn't sell it. And giving it back to its rightful owners was a lot harder than it sounds. “At that point, I realized I was probably going to need some help,” Young says. “I was probably going to need an attorney.” So she hired a lawyer in New York who specializes in international art law, Leila Amin…

She's an antiques dealer. It's her job to buy old things and sell them for more. That's why she was in Goodwill. I think she likely wanted a payout. Also the terms of the deal are confidential. If she didn't get a payout, I don't see why they would be confidential.

Getting a payout seems fair. I doubt the Germans paid anybody when they took it from Italy.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#23

Post by Isamu » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:48 AM UTC

tomcam wrote: post #19

What amazes me about all these stories is the ridiculously low prices the thrift store charged. Here in the Seattle area, everything seems to grossly overpriced in thrift stores.

Yeah, I can never find a reasonable price on a first century Roman antiquity, and believe me I’ve tried.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#24

Post by newaccount2021 » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:48 AM UTC

phil21 wrote: post #18

paulcole wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the hiring a lawyer thing is mind boggling. If that’s the only option, then just donate the stupid head back to Goodwill and be done with it. Goodwill even says they don’t keep records about who makes donations!

Why is it mind boggling? I'd hire a lawyer instantly if I became aware I was in possession of stolen war loot. It's a war crime, and things can get quite iffy really quickly - especially if somehow it goes viral. Much better to just CYA and spend $500 on a lawyer so you ensure you don't go to prison or be held liable for something silly. Call it a hard lesson I've learned multiple times over throughout my life. When…

[dead]

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#25

Post by shadowgovt » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:50 AM UTC

jart wrote: post #11

conk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Another auction house managed to find the head in a catalog of items from a German museum in the 1920s and 1930s.” Per the article it was looted from a German museum. How the german museum acquired it originally is anyones guess. But it’s possible it was legally acquired at some point over the past 1900 years.

It was legally acquired by the woman who just paid $35 at Goodwill. The thing is two thousand years old. Why do people care who owned it during the Weimar Republic?

People get funny of the provenance of things that were taken by military force, go figure.

I'm trying to remember which state it is that periodically asks for their Confederate flag back from the Union state that acquired it on the battlefield.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#26

Post by Wohlf » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:51 AM UTC

jart wrote: post #11

conk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Another auction house managed to find the head in a catalog of items from a German museum in the 1920s and 1930s.” Per the article it was looted from a German museum. How the german museum acquired it originally is anyones guess. But it’s possible it was legally acquired at some point over the past 1900 years.

It was legally acquired by the woman who just paid $35 at Goodwill. The thing is two thousand years old. Why do people care who owned it during the Weimar Republic?

Possession and sale of stolen goods is not legal, just not a crime unless you are aware it's stolen/likely stolen.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#27

Post by dleslie » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:52 AM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #20

tomcam wrote: post #19

What amazes me about all these stories is the ridiculously low prices the thrift store charged. Here in the Seattle area, everything seems to grossly overpriced in thrift stores.

Goodwill in particular moves items between markets and prices them based on the local economy. Gone are the days of 2010 when you could walk into the Bellevue Goodwill and find lightly used designer clothing that some retired Microsoft engineer was tired of. Now everything's priced higher than eBay and there's no reason to stop by. Everyone else wants to be a "Boutique" and charge high end prices for used goods. Blam…

I suspect that it's largely because Goodwill and Sally Ann became unofficial suppliers for vintage clothing stores. They probably upped their prices in response to that market.

And now Facebook neighborhood free groups are (often unknowingly) supplying such stores; as well as folks simply turning around and relisting on Facebook marketplace.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#28

Post by [deleted] » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:52 AM UTC

jart wrote: post #11

conk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Another auction house managed to find the head in a catalog of items from a German museum in the 1920s and 1930s.” Per the article it was looted from a German museum. How the german museum acquired it originally is anyones guess. But it’s possible it was legally acquired at some point over the past 1900 years.

It was legally acquired by the woman who just paid $35 at Goodwill. The thing is two thousand years old. Why do people care who owned it during the Weimar Republic?

[deleted]

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#29

Post by alimov » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:55 AM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #20

tomcam wrote: post #19

What amazes me about all these stories is the ridiculously low prices the thrift store charged. Here in the Seattle area, everything seems to grossly overpriced in thrift stores.

Goodwill in particular moves items between markets and prices them based on the local economy. Gone are the days of 2010 when you could walk into the Bellevue Goodwill and find lightly used designer clothing that some retired Microsoft engineer was tired of. Now everything's priced higher than eBay and there's no reason to stop by. Everyone else wants to be a "Boutique" and charge high end prices for used goods. Blam…

A lot of people that I know and know of shop at goodwill and then resell the items on places like Depop (marked up). I also know of some boutiques that have a similar tactic. It’s worth it to some people to buy marked up items from these places and individuals because going and finding something at goodwill can be a pain and there’s no guarantee you will find anything worthwhile anyway. I think goodwill has caught onto this and has decided to raise prices on some goods.

Re: $35 sculpture found at an Austin Goodwill was looted from a museum during WWII

#30

Post by Ansil849 » Fri, May 06, 2022, 12:59 AM UTC

> She was in possession of a looted piece of ancient art. She couldn't keep it.

I don't understand. Museums in the West are full of looted ancient art [1]. Why are they allowed to keep it, but this woman cannot keep this one item?

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/learning/should-museums-r...