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24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

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Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#51

Post by namank »

I don't understand WHY Facebook chose to not reveal the rest of the data on the first attempt. Let it be a sign of good faith! FB is not alone in this, obviously sites that I visit track usage and what not.

If its a best practices for business thing (do not bend over more than you have too) then C'MONNN! This is the post baby boomers age, bro - the digital age. Get with the show, be good.

Why would they delay sending others the data? In fact, I would use this opportunity to gain the trust that left the building with the long lost battle about privacy (settings)

Of course I presume all the data they collect is within the bounds of legal and ethical lines.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#52

Post by Natsu »

count wrote: post #40
AlexMuir wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to look beyond the law to what its purpose is - to prevent companies from exploiting your personal information, and to force them to tell you what data they hold. Facebook are exploiting your browser history, without telling you. And are refusing to even own up to it. I don't believe that 99% of Facebook users would tick a box that said 'Please record every webpage I visit and store it for your own future us…

But if you, as a customer of those websites, agree to them knowing you are there, and they chose to share that with others, what right does the government have to prevent that? Why is this not a 'just don't use the service if you don't like it' deal? Credit bureaus are significantly different - you have literally no choice in that manner; Facebook isn't providing data to be used in that type of decision though. If so…

They gather data on non-customers, too. People who have never agreed to anything at all. That's complaint #2 as listed on the website.

http://europe-v-facebook.org/Compalint_02_Shadow_Profiles.pd...

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#53

Post by d0mine »

beforebeta wrote: post #9
Permit wrote: post #2

Honest question: Why is Facebook governed, at least in part, by European law? The reason I ask is that the United States has a lot of trouble enforcing its copyright laws abroad (which is good in my opinion), but Facebook and Google seem to bend to European laws regarding privacy and transparency.

The linked video (in german) explains this. Apparently Facebook has a registered HQ in Ireland (presumably - as someone mentioned in another thread - for tax purposes). Since it is a registered business in Ireland, it is subject to all Irish and many applicable European laws (one of which is data privacy). The 24-year-old Individual feels it's against his data privacy rights that Facebook retains deleted messages. Pe…

People say if you don't want facebook to know anything about you, then you shouldn't post there. So others reply that it doesn't matter that you didn't give the data to facebook, one of your friends might.

So now the statement is that if you don't want facebook to know anything about you, then you shouldn't tell your friends, colleagues, etc. anything - after all, they may enter it on facebook.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2481922&cid=37750358

If you visit pages that might contain Like button then facebook will know about you even without your acquaintances.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#54

Post by VladRussian »

count wrote: post #46
VladRussian wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is nobody complaining about NTFS or ext3/4 not actually zeroing out the file space when you delete something, and instead just 'marking it deleted' or 'removing the pointer in the inode'? you have obviously never dealt with DoD or anybody close to it or even just with a serious enterprise/bank.

Actually, I have. Shredding, NIST, the whole nine. Facebook isn't protecting classified nuclear secrets, or the keys to the financial kingdom, it's protecting pictures of cats and drunk college parties. And outside of a few special places, such as the DoD, NOBODY CARES about the file system issues.

What this all information is gathered for? One of main known goals is "personalized shopping experience" in marketing speak. For some people to be presented while shopping with prices 50% higher than they would be otherwise just because analysis of the information gathered about them would show that they would buy at this price would be equivalent to losing the keys to their personal financial kingdom.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#55

Post by coldarchon »

count wrote: post #40
AlexMuir wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to look beyond the law to what its purpose is - to prevent companies from exploiting your personal information, and to force them to tell you what data they hold. Facebook are exploiting your browser history, without telling you. And are refusing to even own up to it. I don't believe that 99% of Facebook users would tick a box that said 'Please record every webpage I visit and store it for your own future us…

But if you, as a customer of those websites, agree to them knowing you are there, and they chose to share that with others, what right does the government have to prevent that? Why is this not a 'just don't use the service if you don't like it' deal? Credit bureaus are significantly different - you have literally no choice in that manner; Facebook isn't providing data to be used in that type of decision though. If so…

you don't get it, right? You already ARE a customer even BEFORE you agree to something which they don't abide. They use YOU even if you don't like it ..

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#56

Post by 0x12 »

I really hope that nobody here is actually surprised that that is the true purpose of the 'like' button.

After all, the users get just about nothing out of it, if you like something that much an email will do just as well (to the select number of people that you think your liking a particular subject will appeal to).

The main winners are the publishers (they hope for some more traffic) and facebook (by extending your profile, not just by being able to count the 'likes' but also by the lesser value of those sites that you simply visit).

Like buttons and other third party javascript are a huge vector for privacy violations, basically any website that places any kind of third party javascript on their pages is giving full control over the privacy of their users to the party that hosts the javascript component.

If that party also happens to host a service that a large number of people have signed up for at some point in the past, and that they are possibly signed in to right this minute the potential for abuse is staggering.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#57

Post by DanBC »

lukasb wrote: post #25

The "excessive processing of data" claim, if valid, would seem to make any social networking service a non-starter: "Facebook is hosting enormous amounts of personal data and it is processing all data for its own purposes. It seems Facebook is a prime example of illegal 'excessive processing'."

Some data-processing is an intrinsic part of running a social networking site. That's not being complained about. What is being complained about is the secret data collection and processing that's happening without the user's permission or knowledge - visiting a page with a like button gives data about the user to Fb even if the user doesn't click the button. Fb then use that information to do stuff.

Since the user has no way of knowing if a page he's about to visit will have a Fb like button or not; and the user probably doesn't realise that Fb will gather the data with no user interaction on the button; that seems like excessive collection and processing.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#58

Post by slowpoke »

Natsu wrote: post #15
twodayslate wrote: post #8

If you don't like them storing your data, then don't go on the site. They won't have it if you don't give it to them.

One of the complaints is that they have profiles on people who are not users. They can get other people to give them information about you. Specifically, have a look at complaint #2: "Shadow Profiles. Facebook is collecting data about people without their knowledge. This information is used to substitute existing profiles and to create profiles of non-users." http://europe-v-facebook.org/Compalint_02_Shadow_Profiles.…

This. It's the most important thing to stretch by far. One can definitely argue about whether or not people using Facebook should be allowed to complain that they are giving their data to them.

I do not use Facebook. They still try to get my data.

Well, they would if they could, and wouldn't be shitlisted by at least four layers of filters (NoScript, Ghostery, AdBlock, RequestPolicy). Still, I can't block Facebook trying to get people to identify me on photos I might happen to be on. While pretty much anyone I am closer acquainted to knows that we'd be through if they'd ever put pictures of me on Facebook, I can't control this for obvious reasons. I can't control photos taken of me on, for example, concerts, either. It's this loss of control that worries me the most.

What I am also concerned about is the fact that people who are not aware of the dangers that Facebook poses might learn one day - and then there will be no way to correct their mistakes anymore.

Finally, I am deeply anxious about the future of the net if stupid ideas like the Facebook login gain traction. I don't want to see a web where Facebook or Google are mandatory to do anything useful. It's already extremely disturbing how much of the net runs on stuff made by Google. This amount of dependency on a single, commercial entity is insanity, no matter how persistently they might insist on their "Don't be evil" policy.

Re: 24 year old student lights match: Europe versus Facebook

#59

Post by 0x12 »

count wrote: post #40
AlexMuir wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to look beyond the law to what its purpose is - to prevent companies from exploiting your personal information, and to force them to tell you what data they hold. Facebook are exploiting your browser history, without telling you. And are refusing to even own up to it. I don't believe that 99% of Facebook users would tick a box that said 'Please record every webpage I visit and store it for your own future us…

But if you, as a customer of those websites, agree to them knowing you are there, and they chose to share that with others, what right does the government have to prevent that? Why is this not a 'just don't use the service if you don't like it' deal? Credit bureaus are significantly different - you have literally no choice in that manner; Facebook isn't providing data to be used in that type of decision though. If so…

You can't really contract out of these rights, they're yours to keep (if you're living in the EU, that is).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Protection_Directive

Some countries go further than these pan-European rules and for instance require you to delete the data on request.

Facebook having a Dublin subsidiary is going to hurt big time.

The reason why you can't respond to some comments is because of HNs anti flame-war measures, a cool-off period is active before a reply link appears. There are some tricks to get around that, I'm sure you'll be able to figure it out.

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