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CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

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Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#421

Post by the_only_law »

niij wrote: post #395
drekk wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those landlords should get a real job in that case. They chose to treat housing like a speculative asset and it didn't go their way. Makes zero sense to me that our pandemic response was about "keeping small businesses afloat" rather than keeping transmission low for a few weeks. I guess besides sacrificing grandma to the economy for $2 margaritas at Applebee's we should have evicted millions during winter so that la…

Stealing/nationalizing property, even for a year, results in higher costs to do business in the future due to the assumed risk. So I agree with you that this may have helped the single metric in the short term; there are long term consequences. That means as an individual you will either pay higher rent or be forced to buy. Many people would rather have the flexibility and no maintenance that renting provides.

> That means as an individual you will either pay higher rent or be forced to buy.

So basically what I already do every year?

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#422

Post by niij »

the_only_law wrote: post #421
niij wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stealing/nationalizing property, even for a year, results in higher costs to do business in the future due to the assumed risk. So I agree with you that this may have helped the single metric in the short term; there are long term consequences. That means as an individual you will either pay higher rent or be forced to buy. Many people would rather have the flexibility and no maintenance that renting provides.

> That means as an individual you will either pay higher rent or be forced to buy. So basically what I already do every year?

Assuming you're in the U.S. there has been positive inflation for decades, so unless you live in a place like Detroit, yes just like every year. This is just an _additional_ factor to raise your rent at an even faster rate.

That's not even considering the currency devaluation, which is probably an even bigger contributing factor than landlord uncertainty. But it sure doesn't help.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#423

Post by mullingitover »

Aerroon wrote: post #416
mullingitover wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stealing/nationalizing property, even for a year, results in higher costs to do business in the future due to the assumed risk. It's a good thing that's not what they did , then. Making landlords wait to be paid for a limited time is not the same thing as "stealing," and furthermore there were billions upon billions in subsidies passed around to mitigate the effects of this very reasonable measure. It's telling tha…

> Making landlords wait to be paid for a limit time is not the same thing as "stealing," It is though. Banks make an entire business about taking your money now and giving it back to you later. They even pay you extra! How would you feel if your employer decided to only pay you in 3 months' time? What consequences do you think this could have on the average person?

We were in a deflation spiral though, which would generally mean that the person receiving the loan (i.e. the tenant) would've been paying negative interest rates. The landlords would've been obligated to make the tenants whole for the 'damages' they received from receiving a loan from the landlords.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#424

Post by diggernet »

mullingitover wrote: post #411
niij wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Making landlords wait to be paid for a limit time is not the same thing as "stealing," They weren't being paid, that's the whole issue. If they were then an eviction moratorium wouldn't have mattered. > furthermore there were billions upon billions in subsidies passed around to mitigate the effects of this very reasonable measure Are government subsidies to corporations something you're supporting here? > It's tell…

They were eventually paid. Source: my friend who is a landlord and was not adversely impacted at all in the pandemic. > Are government subsidies to corporations something you're supporting here? Actually, in the case I have direct knowledge of, this was direct subsidies to renters (via the Emergency Rental Assistance Program), who then repaid their landlords. > If you want an economic system where property rights are…

Not all of them. I know landlords who are still waiting to be paid. The eviction moratorium has ended. The tenant rent assistance program has been closed to new applicants. But the folks running the program have not bothered to make a decision on the existing applications, and eviction is not allowed until those applications have been approved or denied.

The back rent owed exceeds the limits of the assistance program, so even if/when they get paid, it'll be far less than what they are owed. And every month that goes by unpaid isn't covered by the program and will never be paid. But they won't make a decision on the applications, and they won't allow eviction. The homeowners are stuck in an unlimited legal limbo, indefinitely.

Yay California.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#425

Post by LorenPechtel »

nickff wrote: post #38
LorenPechtel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I have no problem with researchers getting anonymized data. CDC, snoop all you want. It's the business guys I don't like having it.

Governments have a long and storied record of data abuse, from the Stasi in East Germany to LoveInt at the CIA.

Note that I said "anonymized".

The first step should be to separate the identity from the data. The phone's ID is plenty for research purposes, keep the name out of it.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#426

Post by [deleted] »

niij wrote: post #407
mullingitover wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stealing/nationalizing property, even for a year, results in higher costs to do business in the future due to the assumed risk. It's a good thing that's not what they did , then. Making landlords wait to be paid for a limited time is not the same thing as "stealing," and furthermore there were billions upon billions in subsidies passed around to mitigate the effects of this very reasonable measure. It's telling tha…

> Making landlords wait to be paid for a limit time is not the same thing as "stealing," They weren't being paid, that's the whole issue. If they were then an eviction moratorium wouldn't have mattered. > furthermore there were billions upon billions in subsidies passed around to mitigate the effects of this very reasonable measure Are government subsidies to corporations something you're supporting here? > It's tell…

[deleted]

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#427

Post by drdeca »

drekk wrote: post #365
niij wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That _should_ be their role, but unfortunately they overstepped. The CDC implemented an eviction moratorium for around a year (September 4, 2020 through August 26, 2021). That had very real, negative impact on landlords during that time. I doubt those effected would call it toothless. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/09/04/2020-19...

Those landlords should get a real job in that case. They chose to treat housing like a speculative asset and it didn't go their way. Makes zero sense to me that our pandemic response was about "keeping small businesses afloat" rather than keeping transmission low for a few weeks. I guess besides sacrificing grandma to the economy for $2 margaritas at Applebee's we should have evicted millions during winter so that la…

even accepting that, that isn't sufficient for it to be the CDC's proper role to make such a dictate?

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#428

Post by epgui »

psyc wrote: post #410
epgui wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, the goals of the public and of the individual are aligned. A few of the best ways to lose your individual autonomy are to die or become ill or disabled. Optimizing for as little of that as possible across society is a good thing for individual freedoms.

It isn’t individualism unless the individual is determining their own goals, and deciding what’s best for themselves. As soon as you have policy deciding what the public good is, you’re no longer discussing what individualists mean by individual freedom, at all. You’re subordinating the individual to the public good. I’m not trying to invalidate your other points, I’m asking you to please not try to frame them as ‘in…

It really is not doublespeak. There are many examples of collective action / public policy that have the effect of maximizing or enabling individual autonomy.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#429

Post by pxeger1 »

version_five wrote: post #100
samschooler wrote: post #2

See the issue here is that this data exists at all and it’s purchasable by any group. I feel like the CDC are the least scary people buying this data. And from the looks of it they used it for medical research, which if similar in style to other medical research is bound by boards and ethics committees. What we aren’t writing about in this article are the groups using this data Cambridge Analytica style to sway polit…

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

> thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance

They do.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#430

Post by 0daystock »

native_samples wrote: post #376
0daystock wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A federal judge vacated the nationwide freeze on evictions that was put in place and the lockdowns were not merely the result of US health officials conspiring. Your criticism of the CDC is valid but I believe it is misguided; the manufactured moral outrage I'm speaking about distracts us from the real abuses of power happening behind the veil, and they are far more shocking than what is reported here.

And who was punished by the court for breaking the law in that way? Nobody, right? So in reality they aren't bound by the law.

Okay, maybe they're not held to the same legal standard as we would be, but at least they can be litigated unlike shadow cabals of deep government.
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