Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination • Hacker News Board

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#211

Post by FpUser » Wed, May 04, 2022, 11:58 AM UTC

mellavora wrote: post #62

ejanus wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it creates window of parallel systems. And it may end up weakening West control of global financial system. People think that by doing that Russia will suddenly leave Ukraine but they are not realising that that won't happen.

May. But Russia's only export of value is gas. Get China and India to go all-in on renewables, while getting a soft agreement with them that future gas purchases from Russia will cost them in other ways, and the question is who would want to join Russia's parallel system? Didn't say my suggestion is easy or likely or without risk. It would take some really careful diplomacy. but it is feasible.

The US has already shown to China that they can and are willing to inflict pain by way of sanctions. At this point I think countries like China, Brasil, India, Indonesia etc will try their best to make sure that their economies can not be affected too much by US/Europe whims. That ship has sailed I think.

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#212

Post by the-lazy-guy » Wed, May 04, 2022, 11:59 AM UTC

nogenhat wrote: post #188

the-lazy-guy wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Do you have examples when the "golden share" rights were excercised? Or which company decisions were actually impacted by it? "veto right" != "control". Othrwise we could say that Russia controls UN security council. All that golden share can veto is the consolidation of ownership in one hands. 2. I read it differently. The screws are tightened and company will be under control of board if Volozh dies, 2 of 12 boa…

1. I'm not part of board and I have no way to find you examples like that. Veto is exactly form of control, UN is under 'veto' control of Russia, and that's exactly the reason UN is currently can't do anything against Russian war crimes. 2. You may read it differently, only if you are kind of very biased towards 'beautiful' Yandex, cause even in official statement it was written that's due to Russian politics system…

1. Fair point. I did think about that later. Anyway, the only veto power the "golden share" has, is about transfer of ownership.

2. You are talking abut PIF board. I am talking about Yandex board. 2 of 12 Yandex board members are appointed by PIF.

3. Are you located in Russia or know people or organizations located in Russia who openly stated their anti-war statement while still being in the Country? I personally know a couple of people who have to spend a few years in prison now. Not much fun. I know a lot of people who moved away and stated their position openly, knowing that they can't be reached now. Yandex is obviously not in that position.

> They were trying to do it as part of Yandex Group. So no, they was not trying to 'migrate from Russia', they was trying to find new markets, like they was trying do search in Turkey at 2010.

They did. And 60% of revenue (in Russia) is coming from the services which were trying to expand abroad. As well as they started relocating employees in offices in other countries. If Yandex had any real business outside of Russia (which it finally had a chance to have) then it would have been a lot more willing to stand openly against this stupid shit.

> if 20k stopped to worry about have 0 ability to buy new iPhone and millions of people service disrupted may be we saw not 4k people on the streets of Moscow but 100k-200k and then we could talk with government.

We saw 100k people in 2011, nothing really changed. And that is when we had way milder police force. Right now, we gonna have more people in prisons when they try to come out to protest. _If_ they come out, because if I learned something, is that a lot of Russian people would say "OK, fine, fuck those rich software engineering bastards, we used to live without hot water, we can live without a few internet websites" (and go use competing services)

Also you missed the part where I talked about obligations to shareholders. I doubt most of them are willing to lose all they have invested. And CEO is kind of supposed to act in their interests.

> They are currently sold Yandex news to VK group, but basically they are telling look we are showing not Yandex news, but VK-news on our main page - we have no power over there. Disgusting.

I am not sure that this is the plan, they haven't yet sold anything yet, so we don't know what will happen once they do. I doubt that they will do that (VK group is a direct competitor, and news will still be perceieved as part of Yandex if they are show there). I don't want to speculate further until we see what happens.

I am probably as much unhappy about what is happening as you are. But I do think that Yandex was a net-positive for Russia, and the mistakes that they've made (by not closing news) are bad but they wouldn't have changed anything in the course of history.

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#213

Post by wara23arish » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:04 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #201

wara23arish wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are gregarious and positive but they simply do not know about what goes on abroad. Either they do not know or do not care. That signals that they too miss a pretty basic level of empathy. The number of countries ravaged/destroyed by americans and their decisions is countless.

The lack of empathy for the destruction of some places wrought by American power is evident, yes, but on the whole there's almost always a positive impetus. "number of countries ravaged/destroyed by americans and their decisions is countless. " - this is rubbish. The argument could be made for Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, but even then, those are uneven arguments and motivations were righteous if flawed. In Afghani…

im not sure why you are limiting the argument to three countries. this just proves my point. i really dont mean disrespect, the american news media simply does not do a good job of educating americans on their own government’s actions overseas.

what happened to: syria libya egypt lebanon yemen venezuela nicaragua

the list goes on and on..

i dont think anyone would argue that arming literal islamist extremists in syria is righteous.

the number of american interventions is too many to count, and the fact that YOU believe they were righteous proves yet again that you lack empathy. what good does that do to all the victims? intervention after intervention, the situation just gets worse and worse. no one ever get held accountable, american citizens dont know any better and get to be gregarious and positive

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#214

Post by freeflight » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:04 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #204

obsrvatlarge wrote: post #150

Maybe it is a question of money or actually currency. Here in Finland electricity is paid for with euros. Good luck for Yandex trying to find a supplier in Finland willing to accept Russian roubles these days.

It should be said that the European Yandex probably uses euros as well, though I'm not sure if their European income is significant. You can visit their tax evasion office over at Schiphol Boulevard 165, 1118 BG Schiphol, The Netherlands, right next to Schiphol Airport. If their European counterpart isn't profitable or their tax evasion setup routes all funds through Russia then they may have trouble paying, but I th…

> I think it's more likely that the political situation of the war itself is to blame.

The ban on paying in ruble is also a political decision, pretty much the whole Western response to Russian military action in Ukraine has been solely political to a hypocritical degree.

I don't remember the world banning the US dollar as a valid payment option over the invasion of Iraq, even tho that would also have been a very apt response to what happened back then [0].

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2003/feb/16/iraq.theeur...

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#215

Post by oneoff786 » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:07 PM UTC

anonymfus wrote: post #104

Ndymium wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, their electricity sales contract ~~expired~~ (EDIT: ended for unspecified reasons) and they don't have a new contract. Their electricity transfer contract is still valid because their Finnish company is not a part of sanctions. (Electricity sales and transfer is separate in Finland.) When they get a new electricity sales contract, then the transfer company will reconnect power. I think the only matter here relat…

> I think the only matter here related to the war could be that electricity sales companies might be reluctant to sell a contract to them, due to PR reasons. But I bet one of them will, and they will get their power back Not necessary, as actual engineers and electricians working for such companies could also refuse to make that connection. Also it's likely that sanctions will be more severe soon as Russian troops wi…

What crimes are going to move the needle further at this point

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#216

Post by adrianN » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:09 PM UTC

bob1029 wrote: post #127

b112 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I've seen devs use 1000s of times, even millions of times the resources required.

It usually all goes wrong the moment someone is granted permission to use a 2nd computer to solve some problem.

If you're allowed to use a second computer, you need at least 4 to match the performance you previously had on the single machine.

http://www.frankmcsherry.org/assets/COST.pdf

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#217

Post by freeflight » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:12 PM UTC

unmole wrote: post #197

avianlyric wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Russia is the wrong place to look for what European countries will and won’t do. On the whole the EU project, and the approach of tight economic ties across the continent has been a huge success. Until Ukraine there hasn’t been a war in Europe for 75 years. Before the EU and the drive to economic integration, Europe had been in a state of almost perpetual war between the different states. Even today the econo…

> Until Ukraine there hasn’t been a war in Europe for 75 years. Yeah, except for the wars in: - Cyprus - Yugoslavia - Georgia - Moldova

Which is actually a pretty good track-record compared to back to back literal world wars, with a very long period of pretty much every state waring with each other before that.

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#218

Post by pjc50 » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:12 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #185

pjc50 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we take an estimate of 20GW from https://ccaf.io/cbeci/index (huge variance!), and multiply that up, we can estimate that bitcoin is consuming the equivalent of six million liters of diesel every hour. (It's not going to be diesel, it's mostly a mix of coal and natgas depending on where it happens, but that gives you an idea of the size)

The Emma Mærsk is powered by a Wärtsilä-Sulzer 14RTFLEX96-C engine, the world's largest single diesel unit, weighing 2,300 tonnes and capable of 81 MW (109,000 hp) when burning 14,000 litres (3,600 US gal) of heavy fuel oil per hour. So bitcoin is equivalent to 425 Emma Mærsks going full bore continually. That'd be 6.3 million TEU - which interesting means that for those big ships, a liter of fuel moves one TEU for o…

> a liter of fuel moves one TEU for one hour.

That's a great little number, and actually feels very efficient!

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#219

Post by pjc50 » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:14 PM UTC

oneoff786 wrote: post #215

anonymfus wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the only matter here related to the war could be that electricity sales companies might be reluctant to sell a contract to them, due to PR reasons. But I bet one of them will, and they will get their power back Not necessary, as actual engineers and electricians working for such companies could also refuse to make that connection. Also it's likely that sanctions will be more severe soon as Russian troops wi…

What crimes are going to move the needle further at this point

They could shoot down a plane full of NATO nationals (again), or deploy chemical weapons of mass destruction in European cities (again)?

Re: Yandex data center in Finland loses power due to contract termination

#220

Post by freeflight » Wed, May 04, 2022, 12:18 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #128

skissane wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia has a lot of special characteristics which most other European states lack: (1) huge population and area; (2) permanent member of UN Security Council; (3) accepted nuclear weapons state with one of world’s largest nuclear arsenals; (4) superpower with a massive multi-decade empire only 3-4 decades ago. Few other European states have any or all of these characteristics; UK and France probably come the closest,…

Russia has a lot of special characteristics which most other European states lack I once heard this stressed very strongly, from a historical, cultural, and political perspective. Russia is not European. If one considers the mindset which allowed this war to happen, and the politics, the fascism, this seems quite true.

Europe is not even a geographical continent, its just one part of the Eurasian continent.

Which means the majority of Europe/Asia distinctions are drawn around economic, cultural and particularly political borders, none of which are natural but to a degree rather arbitrarily defined by humans depending on their particular agenda.

In that context "othering", up to a scale of denying whole nation states their geographical location and cultural influences, has never lead to better and more peaceful relations, quite the opposite.