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CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

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Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#121

Post by ChrisLomont »

version_five wrote: post #100
samschooler wrote: post #2

See the issue here is that this data exists at all and it’s purchasable by any group. I feel like the CDC are the least scary people buying this data. And from the looks of it they used it for medical research, which if similar in style to other medical research is bound by boards and ethics committees. What we aren’t writing about in this article are the groups using this data Cambridge Analytica style to sway polit…

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

>and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions

Do you think the average American knows more about these issues than the CDC? If so, how did they go about getting their knowledge?

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#122

Post by tootie »

stephbu wrote: post #4

Headline feels a little misleading, they didn’t track phones per se, they bought data from one of the dozens of cellphone data-brokers that continue to operate despite legislation and congressional action/in-action.

I also take issue with the liberal use of the term "lockdown". As far as I can tell, the only thing close to a lockdown was issued for a time in San Francisco. Everyplace else just barred indoor gatherings. You could go outside as much as you pleased. And even businesses were open for takeout or reduced occupancy.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#123

Post by version_five »

josho wrote: post #115
version_five wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

I know we are getting off track here somewhat. But it's group A wants this data to better understand society in order to save lives, while every other group want this data to increase their profits. To your point, yes we shouldn't allow tracking. But, whatever fix we apply should not be so limited that it only affects the CDC, it should be generally applied to stop all groups as well.

> group A wants this data to better understand society in order to save lives

In principle, I agree with the idea of anonymous data used exclusively and apolitically to "understand society" as you say. I just see no evidence that would ever be possible, either to trust that it will be kept anonymous or that whatever conclusion get drawn from it and acted upon will be remotely nonpartisan. It's sad in a sense, but I think the only viable solution is to reject any notion of tracking, no matter how much anyone swears they'll only use it for what they consider good.

That said, I may be missing something but I still think it's less worrisome to hear that private companies are using information that customers didn't actively hide and provided by voluntarily using their product (I still don't like it, but I don't think it should be illegal for a company to say "we're giving you this tracking device", use it and get a discount). Compared with the government, given the whole "monopoly of violence" thing or whatever weaker version you like, and also as the agent of the people, to be using that data, I think is a whole different think. Same as there is a difference between an ISP logging your internet traffic, and one voluntarily giving that information to the government and effectively becoming a government agency.

Anyway, this is going too far astray, and getting too long, you see my point about the distinction

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#124

Post by ChrisLomont »

colinmhayes wrote: post #68
cm2187 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the virtually unlimited executive powers the CDC believes it has, I am not sure I agree with your assessment that it is the least scary people. But I agree that the problem here is not that the CDC is buying it so much that this data is available to be bought.

They don't even have the power to study gun violence.

They do, they choose not to. That they cannot by some law is a myth. Obama even called them out on it.

Obama also had them author a massive study on all aspects of gun violence, but the results went quite against what the Dems wanted to claim, so it got pretty quiet again.

What happened is they did publish some studies, and one was quite bad (to this day the author will not release the dataset, for example), but was invoked for a lot of policy. Congress chastised them for it, banned them from advocating public policy, but they did not ban the CDC from studies (and they still do studies, very few - if you search you can find them).

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#125

Post by junofan »

cinntaile wrote: post #108
dfee wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mental gymnastics of this comment. > bound by boards and ethics committees Is there any evidence an ethics committee was party to this? If in fact, one was, they found it ethical to consume personally identifiable data without those persons’ authorization?

https://www.cdc.gov/os/integrity/hrpo/index.htm I assume this classifies as research so it should be subject to the same ethical requirements.

Going off “CDC’s Policy on Distinguishing Public Health Research and Public Health Nonresearch” linked from that page, I would guess this activity they’d call “nonresearch.”

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#126

Post by jancsika »

version_five wrote: post #100
samschooler wrote: post #2

See the issue here is that this data exists at all and it’s purchasable by any group. I feel like the CDC are the least scary people buying this data. And from the looks of it they used it for medical research, which if similar in style to other medical research is bound by boards and ethics committees. What we aren’t writing about in this article are the groups using this data Cambridge Analytica style to sway polit…

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

> Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention.

That's not a fair response given the examples provided to you.

OP's comment mentioned the Cambridge Analytica case which-- if true-- is certainly more concerning than someone advertising at you.

It's one thing to argue that case was overblown, but it's not serious to sweep it into the bin of "otherwise grab my attention."

Edit: changed the word "satisfactory" to "fair." It's not that the comment I'm replying to wasn't tasty enough for my enjoyment or something. It's more that it hand-waved away the point OP was making.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#127

Post by ChrisLomont »

nickff wrote: post #38
LorenPechtel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. I have no problem with researchers getting anonymized data. CDC, snoop all you want. It's the business guys I don't like having it.

Governments have a long and storied record of data abuse, from the Stasi in East Germany to LoveInt at the CIA.

They also have a long and storied history of helping the public avoid widespread disasters and preventing larger outbreaks of disease through using data.

Which of these is more common and useful?

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#128

Post by darkerside »

version_five wrote: post #100
samschooler wrote: post #2

See the issue here is that this data exists at all and it’s purchasable by any group. I feel like the CDC are the least scary people buying this data. And from the looks of it they used it for medical research, which if similar in style to other medical research is bound by boards and ethics committees. What we aren’t writing about in this article are the groups using this data Cambridge Analytica style to sway polit…

> CDC are the least scary people buying this data Most buyers probably just want to target advertising at me, or otherwise grab my attention. The CDC wants a say in how people live their lives and thinks they know better than individuals about risk tolerance and decisions. And they seem to think they can have unchecked power by invoking "science". Can someone name a scarrier entity that could be tracking you? I don't…

> Can someone name a scarrier (sp) entity that could be tracking you?

... The Mafia? Any other criminal or terrorist organization or individual? The police operating under an incorrect warrant? A creepy ex?

Unless you buy into conspiracies, the CDC is at worst going to do what it thinks is best for you, and is constrained by constitutional checks and balances.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#129

Post by loceng »

throwaway82652 wrote: post #103
loceng wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

If there is another forum I would hope similar comments are also downvoted or deleted there because it's completely unrelated to the discussion, and you're also taking the opportunity to take cheap political shots at easy targets. Don't do that. Dr. Fauci doesn't even work for the CDC. You're better than this, you don't have to set up these rhetorical traps to have a discussion.

No post body was provided.

Re: CDC tracked millions of phones to see if Americans followed lockdown orders

#130

Post by loceng »

evilduck wrote: post #102
loceng wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Complaining about negative karma, downvotes, or dislikes is pretty much the best way to receive more of it. Going on the attack against your imagined perception of your downvoters and then the platform itself and all of its users is also pretty justifiably worth downvoting.

No post body was provided.
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