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The Agony of Eros: Dating

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Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#261

Post by tgv »

omniglottal wrote: post #234
tgv wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A right is just another cultural concept.

Your use of language is a cultural concept, too - let's not ignore how your dismissal here is about as valid as if you chose to not use words to express this concept. Having rights is a matter of personal agency, regardless of society's "collective" agency. It is a distinction between cultural and personal control over the individual. You might consider either trying to stop using words altogether, or else maybe reco…

Language --most likely-- is a natural concept: animals have developed it, too. It builds culture. It's more natural than the taboo on murder, the concept mentioned earlier in the thread.

> let's not ignore how your dismissal here

My point in the thread was against using "culturally determined" as a way to dismiss an argument. I'll repeat my stance: the fact that something is culturally determined or socially shaped does not alter its meaning or value.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#262

Post by antisthenes »

schrijver wrote: post #200
meerita wrote: post #58

The author clearly didn't studied the matter and she's speaking from personal and enviroment-she-can-perceive point of view, no offense with this part. After reading the entire post, I can see she's biased with her own perception on the matter. Reading other articles, who are also biased just make it worse. When you look at the data, you realize the dating world for men is close to doom. Only a small fraction of men…

I keep hearing this reference on how most (80%?) of women compete for the 20% of men, it just doesn’t make sense to me. It can only be true in a narrow sense… i.e. on a specific dating app 20% of men get messaged by 80% of women (that’s where the figure comes from IIRC?). But looking at the larger picture of how relationships are formed, there is no way for it to work this way. And if it were true, it would be just a…

> It can only be true in a narrow sense… i.e. on a specific dating app 20% of men get messaged by 80% of women (that’s where the figure comes from IIRC?).

The apps are not a "narrow sense". It's how most people meet each other these days.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#263

Post by solenoidalslide »

ZephyrBlu wrote: post #233
solenoidalslide wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be the goal? Men who have a partner still have the option to pursue sex outside of a relationship. Many simply pay for that type of sexual relationship with no "struggles" you speak of.

Define "many". I highly doubt that a majority of men have ever paid for sex, let alone having paid for sex while they're in a relationship. Also, part of the allure of promiscuity is being able to attract/seduce multiple women . Paying for sex eliminates that.

Do people not use money as a proxy for power/status?

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#264

Post by akhmatova »

immigrantheart wrote: post #56

Looks like the commoditization of love/dating apps and social media begins to show its ugly tail. Stories from my circle of friends/families: - Girls obsessed over their physiques. Going skinny to the point it wrecked their hormones. - People who are married just shy over 2-3 years are thinking on divorce, or have girlfriends/boyfriends. - People having open relationships. - Girls randomly make out in club with some…

I see you're getting at with the other points -- but what's not to like about these two?

- People having open relationships.

- Girls randomly make out in club with some random strangers they just met.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#265

Post by antihero »

mikevm wrote: post #68
antihero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is “messed up” about open relationships and making out with strangers?

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

This just reeks of jealousy, insecurity, and incel/redpill nonsense.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#266

Post by mikevm »

virtualritz wrote: post #174
mikevm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

So you are saying monogamy exists primarily because of jealousy and fear? I wonder who would enter a relationship build on these foundations? Can you explain why you think "loosing your partner" is bound to happen when they have sex with other people? What about them falling in love with a co-worker (no sex required), dying from a car accident one day etc.? How do you assume these things are less likely than when sex…

> So you are saying monogamy exists primarily because of jealousy and fear?

Monogamy exists because of a strong bond between two people. Sex is part of that bond. If you "love" another person, then obviously you would fear of losing them, and so would they. A bit of jealousy is healthy in a relationship, and there should be certain boundaries set (so called "red lines").

> Can you explain why you think "loosing your partner" is bound to happen when they have sex with other people?

The fact that I have to explain this is already outrageous.

> Jealousy always exists. I can be jealous because my partner goes to her "girls night" and I don't get to spend time with her.

There's jealousy and there's her actually fcking a stranger. My gf should know that going for a "girl's night out" to some night club is not OK, just as it would not be OK for me to do the same thing. I have personally hooked up girls who were on trips abroad while they had a bf waiting at home... if your gf insists on going on such a trip, she's for the streets.

> Once you think about this for a bit you realize that the choice/reasons for jealousy are mostly arbitrary/cultural and can be overcome. Like any bad habit.

You can't just erase culture like that. Culture is not born out of thin air, it is partly based on our psychology. Biology -> Psychology -> Sociology. If you don't mind other men fcking your gf, then you are clearly in the minority of men, and that's OK, there's a minority for everything. But don't go around claiming that mate guarding is just purely cultural (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mate_guarding_in_humans).

> As for access to sex: there are options for men to balance the sheet. Just take up some sort of social dancing; tango, swing, salsa etc. Or sport. Climbing gyms are playgrounds for singles.

It's not even close. Believe you me. Maybe it is where you live, but where I live the competition is so fierce that these places are just sausage fests.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#267

Post by mikevm »

cassepipe wrote: post #128
mikevm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

"You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them" Maybe you are mistaking your love for someone with your fear of being alone ? Open relationships, and poly relationships even more, are difficult for many reasons I can't bother to detail here. There is of course a certain inequality in the access to sex that you are pointing out even though you are leaving out many other very important parameters in your exa…

> Maybe you are mistaking your love for someone with your fear of being alone ?

No. Loving your sister and loving your wife are two different forms of love. You are equating them both.

> Open relationships, and poly relationships even more, are difficult for many reasons I can't bother to detail here.

I don't think they are possible without exploitation, period. There are plenty of horror stories online about these types of relationships, and rarely an honest appraisal.

> Anyways your vision of the whole thing seems to be pretty much informed by your resentment (They are not even paying for dinner!) and it is not that hard to find someone to have sex with you as a man.

It's informed by the fact that one side of the relationship usually has access to relationships without putting it any work (the woman), while the other part needs to put a lot of work. This obvious asymmetry makes this arrangement quite unfair to the man.

> Having some emotional intelligence, basic social skills, not having a definite vision of what gender roles are, and in general not being an asshole will help a lot, adding to that women are for cultural reasons less sensitive than men to attractiveness.

None of that helps much in a sexual market with strong competition (like where I live). Tinder barely works for most men here. You, like all leftists tend to make everything a cultural choice, so that you can go ahead and simply rewrite the rules as you see fit... I don't buy it, especially not for gender roles which have strong biological components.

> What's funny with incels is that they complain they can't get laid but what they mean in general is that can't have sex with the most attractive women and make fun of less attractive women

I don't care about incels - heck, I don't even know what they are. Men and women have different parameters for sexual attraction. Men are attracted primarily to youth and beauty and women are attracted to dominance and social status (this is not because of cultural reasons, as you claim). I wouldn't want to settle for an unattractive woman just like a woman wouldn't want to settle for a submissive man.

By the way, if you manage to find it, consider reading https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Rule-Theory-Dominance/dp/0812.... Read the first review.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#268

Post by arunprakash01 »

eternalban wrote: post #149
varjag wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fairytales are also pre-industrial. My point is exactly that it's not quite appstore-modern.

Quite a few of these are in fact cautionary tales or allegories. (Obsessive romantic) Love in many cultures was considered a sort of madness. Only the elite subset of society had time for romantic amusements in pre-industrial societies. A lot of these issues (and preoccupations with romance) go out of the window when people are struggling to survive, as most did in pre-industrial societies.

[flagged]

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#269

Post by arunprakash01 »

eternalban wrote: post #138
chrisseaton wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, you can rely on props I’ve clearly got no idea how people are dating these days…

A friend of mine met her future husband via a dating site. He apparently brought Scrabble to the first date. (The marriage is successful.)

[flagged]

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#270

Post by mrfinn »

spicyusername wrote: post #167
mrfinn wrote: post #2

Terrible agony: Wait for when you have kids.

Kids are very likely the most rewarding and enjoyable thing you can possibly do in your life. You just need to have a solid partnership with your significant other before having them. Many of the points in the article are exactly the kinds of things you want to cultivate with your partner (e.g. self-awareness, good communication, etc) before having kids. If you have a good relationship with your partner, having kids…

Oh no, I'm not blaming kids at all. I'm blaming the biological need of sharing them with a completely independent adult that I thought was a solid partnership and now often decides to use them, in ways I never dared to imagine, to achieve the desired goals.
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