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Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
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Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#32Quoted post unavailable.
Should states also be allowed to legislate contraceptives, premarital sex, sex between same sex couples, ...? After all, none of those are guaranteed by the constitution either. What "rights" do you enjoy that aren't expressly guaranteed in the constitution that others might want to let states legislate away from you?
This is all I can imagine we'll end up with. Some states are going to force religious laws on their population and others will not. People will flee to states that don't oppress them and those states under religious law will continue to decline.
The same way states that push abstinence only sex-ed see higher rates of teenage pregnancy those states that push fundamentalist religious law on the people will see more suffering and death, higher rates of poverty and violence, etc.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most pro-life people I know are also against IVF. Can't speak for everyone, though.
And are therefore free to not get IVF themselves. Anecdotally, I know someone who is pro-life and he and his wife just had their first baby via IVF. The principles most apply to others seem to become flexible once it affects them personally.
I would agree that some people are inconsistent, but I don't think that overturns their arguments. Outright murderers often think murder is wrong even though they committed that crime. Also on IVF some simply haven't thought through their principles in regard to it or have emotional reasons that make it hard for them to apply their own principles.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#34Quoted post unavailable.
Should states also be allowed to legislate contraceptives, premarital sex, sex between same sex couples, ...? After all, none of those are guaranteed by the constitution either. What "rights" do you enjoy that aren't expressly guaranteed in the constitution that others might want to let states legislate away from you?
> Should states also be allowed to legislate contraceptives, premarital sex, sex between same sex couples
That's up to the supreme court and unwinding Roe is part of the process of rolling those back as well. They didn't go to all that trouble to pack the court with right wing ideologues for nothing.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So it’s better for them not to exist? Obviously yes. If you don't want children, or can't afford a child, or aren't fit to be a parent it's far far better if you don't give birth to a child in the first place.
Better for who? It’s not better for the child. If the child doesn’t like life, suicide is always an option. But let them choose for themselves.
Better for everyone who has actually been born, and yes, even better for the would-be child who now doesn't have to needlessly suffer.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yikes. Preventing abortions brings unwanted children into the world and pushes abortion underground, where they’ll just be less safe abortions. Do you know how unwanted children are treated? I volunteer as a guardian ad litem for children who need a court appointed advocate, and I support abortion fully having seen the alternative suffering, not to mention anti abortion proponents supporting life right up until birth…
> Preventing abortions brings unwanted children into the world and pushes abortion underground, where they’ll just be less safe abortions. If someone believes that abortion is killing an innocent human being, and thus immoral worthy of being illegal, this line of argument won't do anything. It would be like saying, "if we ban murder for hire that will push all of the hitmen under ground!". I understand you don't beli…
What you say makes sense, and I believe it’s a fundamental gap that can’t be closed. I simply cannot put myself in the shoes and mental model of someone who is pro life (and I’ve tried; otherwise how can I have a reasonable debate with the opposition), and I’m sure the feeling is mutual. Therefore, both sides are to remain in tension until a point comes where democracy overrides through cohort turnover [1] (but at a cost of suffering between now and then).
[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opini...
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#37No post body was provided.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> The Nazis had a medical consensus to euthanize undesirable people.
The allies of America do not deserve to be denigrated as Nazis. American scientists and doctors should be proud to consult with their peers in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, India, South Korea, or the various EU nations such as Germany, France, Italy, Sweden, Norway, Finland or the Netherlands.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#39why is this flagged?
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that "logic" birth control does too.
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Do you realize the egregiousness of what you're saying? Any child at any cost under any circumstance is not in any shape or form a net good that can be said without any proof.
Could you point to a country that has gotten better after reversing the freedom to receive an abortion?