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So you are also against IVF?
Most pro-life people I know are also against IVF. Can't speak for everyone, though.
Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
21–30 of 211 posts
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yikes. Preventing abortions brings unwanted children into the world and pushes abortion underground, where they’ll just be less safe abortions. Do you know how unwanted children are treated? I volunteer as a guardian ad litem for children who need a court appointed advocate, and I support abortion fully having seen the alternative suffering, not to mention anti abortion proponents supporting life right up until birth…
So it’s better for them not to exist? Would be nice to at least give them a chance to live.
> So it’s better for them not to exist?
Obviously yes. If you don't want children, or can't afford a child, or aren't fit to be a parent it's far far better if you don't give birth to a child in the first place.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
What about the dignity of rape victims forced to carry, deliver, and raise the children of their rapists?
Don't most people hold that "two wrongs don't make a right"? In Hindu view abortion no matter the reason, except to save the mother's life, incurs strong negative karma.
Everyone agrees that rape is wrong, whereas ~80% of the US believes that abortion is okay under some circumstances (~30% under ANY circumstance).
The reality is that this won't stop abortion, just safe abortions, so now we are going to have rape victims attempting to end their daily reminder of their rape, end up with a crooked back-alley doc butchering them. Many would consider that a wrong as well.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#24>No draft decision in the modern history of the court has been disclosed publicly while a case was still pending.
>Justices can and sometimes do change their votes as draft opinions circulate
Despite the possibility of second thoughts, this is still very worrying for constitutional rights in general. The chances of other important cases for individual rights like Griswold v. Connecticut being overturned just increased greatly.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
So it’s better for them not to exist? Would be nice to at least give them a chance to live.
> So it’s better for them not to exist? Obviously yes. If you don't want children, or can't afford a child, or aren't fit to be a parent it's far far better if you don't give birth to a child in the first place.
Better for who? It’s not better for the child. If the child doesn’t like life, suicide is always an option. But let them choose for themselves.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#26Not sure this makes much of a difference. With the hurdles put in place by many state legislatures, it's kind of been in "states rights" territory for some time now.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#27Quoted post unavailable.
Yikes. Preventing abortions brings unwanted children into the world and pushes abortion underground, where they’ll just be less safe abortions. Do you know how unwanted children are treated? I volunteer as a guardian ad litem for children who need a court appointed advocate, and I support abortion fully having seen the alternative suffering, not to mention anti abortion proponents supporting life right up until birth…
> Preventing abortions brings unwanted children into the world and pushes abortion underground, where they’ll just be less safe abortions.
If someone believes that abortion is killing an innocent human being, and thus immoral worthy of being illegal, this line of argument won't do anything. It would be like saying, "if we ban murder for hire that will push all of the hitmen under ground!". I understand you don't believe that is what abortion is, but I think if you look at it from the pro-life point of view it will show why this line of reasoning doesn't seem convincing.
> Do you know how unwanted children are treated? I volunteer as a guardian ad litem for children who need a court appointed advocate, and I support abortion fully having seen the alternative suffering, not to mention anti abortion proponents supporting life right up until birth, and then it’s “good luck champ, this is America, find those bootstraps.”
This isn't an argument for abortion, its an argument for better child care services and child protection. Most pro-lifers are very supportive of giving support to children and parents who are in tough situations, just recently a local community raised a large amount of money and materials to provide support.
> Anti abortion in America isn’t about pro life, it’s about giving a certain political subset control over womens’ reproductive rights.
This is a false characterization. The difference in view between pro-life and pro-choice is not "womans rights vs. no womans rights" or something like that, its a difference philosophical and moral view of what the unborn /are/.
Does what I say make sense? Please let me know if you need clarifications, I am typing quickly and can't proof read as much as I would like to.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#28States ought not ban medical procedures which are mainstream in major countries around the world on the basis of religious ideology, but unfortunately that's what's happening in states like Texas. This is a private matter between any individual and their doctor. Of course rich individuals will still be able to fly to countries like UK or Germany to receive mainstream medicine backed by mainstream science.
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Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you are also against IVF?
Most pro-life people I know are also against IVF. Can't speak for everyone, though.
And are therefore free to not get IVF themselves.
Anecdotally, I know someone who is pro-life and he and his wife just had their first baby via IVF. The principles most apply to others seem to become flexible once it affects them personally.
Re: Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't most people hold that "two wrongs don't make a right"? In Hindu view abortion no matter the reason, except to save the mother's life, incurs strong negative karma.
Everyone agrees that rape is wrong, whereas ~80% of the US believes that abortion is okay under some circumstances (~30% under ANY circumstance). The reality is that this won't stop abortion, just safe abortions, so now we are going to have rape victims attempting to end their daily reminder of their rape, end up with a crooked back-alley doc butchering them. Many would consider that a wrong as well.
If abortion is the killing of an innocent human being, which is what the pro-life side asserts, there is no such thing as a "safe" abortion. Its important to understand where opponents of your view are coming from otherwise there will be a communication disconnect which helps noone.