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The Agony of Eros: Dating

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Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#161

Post by doix »

adriand wrote: post #139
doix wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 30(ish) and have managed to avoid the online dating scene. I just met people doing the hobbies I like and traveling. I feel like now it's easier than ever to do that. COVID has made a lot more people travel (anecdotal data ofc) after they felt stuck for a while. And remote work means that you can travel while working. You can go somewhere, meet someone, and then travel around together. If things stop going well,…

This sounds like a huge amount of fun! Kudos to you, it seems a million times more enjoyable and memorable than what most other people are doing. Do you get lonely though? After you and someone you’ve been hanging out with to your separate ways, how do you feel? And aside from romantic partners, what about friendships? Like what are you doing to maintain, and benefit from, relationships that you’ve had for years?

> Do you get lonely though?

I tend to meet people pretty quickly, so I don't get lonely. Sometimes the opposite, there is too much social interaction and I need to hide to get some 'space' to do 'nothing'. I've been traveling with a women I met for the past 6 months though, so definitely not lonely then :).

> After you and someone you’ve been hanging out with to your separate ways, how do you feel?

You know when you finish/catch up to a TV show that you really like, and you want a next episode, but there isn't one? You kind of feel this emptiness inside you. It's kinda like that, but worse. But you know you'll find another show, so you just move on and then later on you just remember how awesome the show was even though it's over. Maybe I get too invested in TV shows and that analogy doesn't make sense to other people ;p.

> Like what are you doing to maintain, and benefit from, relationships that you’ve had for years?

I keep in touch with them and come back 'home' (UK) to see them. They are split up around the UK now, so I make an effort to go visit them. Depending on where I am, they might come visit me. I also have friends that I game with and chat on irc/mumble. I've also met a lot of 'online friends' (from playing quake3 back in the day) whilst traveling as well. Pretty cool to put a face/person to an online handle.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#162

Post by brabarossa »

doix wrote: post #84
smackeyacky wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it interesting. Being an older person in a long term relationship with someone I met in high school, the online dating stuff seems much harder for a lot of reasons. Firstly, meet someone when you are young they are more likely to be of a similar socio-economic group and share a lot of values by default. Second (and I realise this is controversial) if you fall in love when you are young and stupid, the pair of…

I am 30(ish) and have managed to avoid the online dating scene. I just met people doing the hobbies I like and traveling. I feel like now it's easier than ever to do that. COVID has made a lot more people travel (anecdotal data ofc) after they felt stuck for a while. And remote work means that you can travel while working. You can go somewhere, meet someone, and then travel around together. If things stop going well,…

Majority of people can't afford that kind of lifestyle.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#163

Post by eli_gottlieb »

psyc wrote: post #146
dbspin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meeting strangers to 'make out' with or 'hook up' with is literally the point of a club. It's been going on ever since humans had festivals and dances. Lets case conservatively 8 - 12k years. What you consider 'trashy' is completely culturally determined, and in this case amusingly bourgeois. This post is part of a wider trend toward sex negativity. It's not predicated on any major social change - in fact young peopl…

I know what you’re going for with ‘culturally determined’ but it’s just so unconvincing. When I was 20, I was part of the culture that went to clubs. Now I’m part of the culture that thinks it’s trashy as all hell, and a fleeting millisecond of’fun’ that isn’t really even that fun.

Ok, so you got older and turned into a Boomer. What's new? Circle of life.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#164

Post by MezzoDelCammin »

Zababa wrote: post #63
MezzoDelCammin wrote: post #15

Is it just me, or does this article really overthink way too much? IMO, dating is ultimately not a subject that could be analyzed by logic. At least not on on the personal / self-help level (of course sociology / statistics still work). Trying to find some kind of generally applicable "rules of the game" that would work for everyone (or even most) people seems somewhat "not even wrong". It's simply trying to use the…

I think the first paragraph of the article gives enough justification on why you would want to analyze this subject with logic: > I’ve been in a relationship for a while, but before that I dated for several years and experienced it both as 1) really fun and 2) terrible psychological torment. Lately dating videos on TikTok, Rethinking Sex by Christine Emba, this post by Oliver Traldi, The Agony of Eros by Byung-Chul H…

I see a contradiction in using personal / anecdotical experience in an article that claims universality.

Is "dating" unsatisfying, or have "my / my friends dates" been unsatisfying?

IMO You can either write about Your dating life (or lives of some limited group of people), or a general sociological / psychological / ethical study.

I don't think You can or should mix those two together.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#165

Post by virtualritz »

xyzzy4747 wrote: post #69
antihero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is “messed up” about open relationships and making out with strangers?

Making out with strangers is a fast way to get sick with something. Same with open relationships. You’re getting exposed to every germ, virus, STD, etc. that they have. Plus traditionally when you have a partner it’s like a form of property. An open relationship is like sharing your house or car with everyone but probably even worse.

TLDR; Extrapolating both your points you should thus only have one partner for life. And never leave the house (just use delivery apps/wear an ABC suit when opening the door of your house to receive deliveries).

The first objection you listed contains all the reasons to use protection. In general.

I live in Berlin. A city where open/poly relationships are perfectly normal and common.

The bday party I went to last Saturday spanned an age group of 20-50. Mostly hetero people. Of the ten people (give or take one, I just counted in my head) I spoke to, four were in open relationships

This came up because my partner was there too and we introduced our significant other to other people as "this is my primary partner, ...".

You use protection, you regularly get tested for STDs (free in Germany with public health insurance). I never caught anything in 20 years of this lifestyle nor do I know of any cases in my circle of poly/open relationship friends.

The second objection sums up pretty nicely why you should run for your life from what you call "traditional" relationship models/their assumed requirements.

My partner, who's an anthropologist, mentioned that genetic evidence for monogamy only exists for the last 10k years. And it's spotty.

People who believe this is normal or "traditional" (a term that requires context to carry any meaning) just need to brush up on the facts on this topic.

Also one may argue that what we call "monogamy" is (and always was) a lie.

Just look at statistics of cheating and divorce rates when economic/social pressure is removed.

Monogamy is as "natural" as being Christian or Muslim is "natural" when you are born in a country where this is the resp. prevalent religion.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#166

Post by virtualritz »

tgv wrote: post #115
dbspin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meeting strangers to 'make out' with or 'hook up' with is literally the point of a club. It's been going on ever since humans had festivals and dances. Lets case conservatively 8 - 12k years. What you consider 'trashy' is completely culturally determined, and in this case amusingly bourgeois. This post is part of a wider trend toward sex negativity. It's not predicated on any major social change - in fact young peopl…

> completely culturally determined Murder, another completely culturally determined taboo. The (presumed, I might add) fact that something is cultural doesn't change its value. And using bourgeois as dismissive is so 1970s.

What's your point?

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#167

Post by spicyusername »

mrfinn wrote: post #2

Terrible agony: Wait for when you have kids.

Kids are very likely the most rewarding and enjoyable thing you can possibly do in your life. You just need to have a solid partnership with your significant other before having them.

Many of the points in the article are exactly the kinds of things you want to cultivate with your partner (e.g. self-awareness, good communication, etc) before having kids. If you have a good relationship with your partner, having kids is very manageable.

Our generation is too cynical on kids and it's to their own detriment.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#168

Post by acjohnson55 »

I'm fascinated by the dating app world, because it's a part of the culture I missed out on, as someone who has been in the same relationship since before the iPhone. But the way the author describes it is almost exactly the same as what being single was like 15+ years ago. I didn't have apps for doing intros, so there was more friction for that, but other than that, it doesn't seem like much has changed. From many of my friends, it sounds like navigating the electronic correspondence is as frustrating as trying to make spontaneous physical world connections, especially if your goal and/or the goal of the people you're corresponding with is to find potential relationship partners.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#169

Post by AlexandrB »

tgv wrote: post #115
dbspin wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meeting strangers to 'make out' with or 'hook up' with is literally the point of a club. It's been going on ever since humans had festivals and dances. Lets case conservatively 8 - 12k years. What you consider 'trashy' is completely culturally determined, and in this case amusingly bourgeois. This post is part of a wider trend toward sex negativity. It's not predicated on any major social change - in fact young peopl…

> completely culturally determined Murder, another completely culturally determined taboo. The (presumed, I might add) fact that something is cultural doesn't change its value. And using bourgeois as dismissive is so 1970s.

Murder violates the rights of another human being. Whose rights are violated by two consenting adults making out in a club?

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#170

Post by DicIfTEx »

nickelcitymario wrote: post #140
jdrc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eros did not just represent lust but also love. Agape is a context more limited to christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. But there were many Erotes representing all kinds of desire and attraction > Anteros ("Love Returned"),[1] Hedylogos ("Sweet-talk"), Hermaphroditus ("Hermaphrodite" or "Effeminate"), Himeros ("Impetuous Love" or "Pressing Desire"), Hymenaios ("Bridal-Hymn"), and Pothos ("Desire, Lon…

> [...] christianity, which kind of has anti-sexual overtone. As a Christian, I wouldn't agree with this statement. Most denominations that I've experienced are very pro-sex. We see sex as a gift from God, intended to bond two (or, depending on the denomination, maybe more) people together. God is Love, we're taught, and sex is understood to be an expression of love. Now, you might be right if you said Christianity w…

> But "anti-sex" overall? Any such denomination would go extinct pretty quickly if their followers actually followed that.

Case in point: the Shakers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers)

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