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The Agony of Eros: Dating

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Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#121

Post by jawarner »

immigrantheart wrote: post #83
WJW wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly this entire list was happening 20 years ago as well, although the Excel sheets were paper notebooks instead. Young people are going to experiment and make rash decisions that they regret later. That is just a part of growing up and has very little to do with social media or dating apps.

I see, well I'm not part of the cool kids then.

Do you really think dating used to be easy? I fail to see how "dating apps and social media" is the direct cause of the problems you mention, or that any of those problems are new to society.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#122

Post by lolc »

mikevm wrote: post #68
antihero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is “messed up” about open relationships and making out with strangers?

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

Eh, not all people look at their relationship in that specific "work for sex" way. Read up on "invisible labor" if you want to understand why women in particular could get offended by your perspective.

If you're looking for such a relationship, I'm sure you'll find a mate on those terms. But don't claim that this is the only way. And please accept that other people may prefer other setups.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#123

Post by mikevm »

dbspin wrote: post #101
mikevm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

This is a wholly subjective, not to say toxic view of relationships as mutually codependent and cloistrated. It speaks more to your own personal issues than any universal problem with a given relationship style. No one is forced to adopt an open relationship. The idea that 'I don't like it, so you can't have it', is profoundly authoritarian. If it doesn't suit you, don't engage in it. Easy, you can thank our pluralis…

No post body was provided.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#124

Post by immigrantheart »

blfr wrote: post #109
immigrantheart wrote: post #56

Looks like the commoditization of love/dating apps and social media begins to show its ugly tail. Stories from my circle of friends/families: - Girls obsessed over their physiques. Going skinny to the point it wrecked their hormones. - People who are married just shy over 2-3 years are thinking on divorce, or have girlfriends/boyfriends. - People having open relationships. - Girls randomly make out in club with some…

Most women are now in worse shape than the generations before them were at the same age. They may be obsessed with their physiques but mostly because this is a major failing point and obesity epidemic is real.

It is mostly for western/rich countries I think.

Asian countries (rich and poor) still don't suffer from obesity.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#125

Post by blfr »

chrisseaton wrote: post #118
blfr wrote: post #112

> You learn about shared interests, job, which college they went to, their friend group. This is the prime mistake I see my friends make. As a guy, there are pretty much only two things that will seriously and negatively affect your dating life: being short or boring. Talking about your college, job, and friends is usually boring. In fact, even funny stories from these contexts are often boring for your dates to hear…

> come in with enough material to carry a conversation for these 1-4 hours Wow you need a whole multi-part Netflix special just to go on a first date.

Kinda but not really. First, you can reuse and even steal material heavily. Second, you can rely on props, whatever happens around. Third, you don't need to be that good: you're competing with six other boring dudes she went out with and her uncle, not Tim Dillon.

Finally, after a while she will pick up and start talking herself. Then you can bounce off that, tease, make fun. This is the best anyway since anything about her is by default interesting.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#126

Post by mikevm »

lolc wrote: post #122
mikevm wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

Eh, not all people look at their relationship in that specific "work for sex" way. Read up on "invisible labor" if you want to understand why women in particular could get offended by your perspective. If you're looking for such a relationship, I'm sure you'll find a mate on those terms. But don't claim that this is the only way. And please accept that other people may prefer other setups.

> Eh, not all people look at their relationship in that specific "work for sex" way.

I'm not talking just about relationships, I'm talking about the asymmetric access men and women have to sex. This is an undeniable fact of life. If a man wants to get laid tonight, he will have to work hard, and his chances are not that high. That's why ~80% of the prostitutes are women... most women just don't need to pay for sex.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#127

Post by chrisseaton »

blfr wrote: post #125
chrisseaton wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> come in with enough material to carry a conversation for these 1-4 hours Wow you need a whole multi-part Netflix special just to go on a first date.

Kinda but not really. First, you can reuse and even steal material heavily. Second, you can rely on props, whatever happens around. Third, you don't need to be that good: you're competing with six other boring dudes she went out with and her uncle, not Tim Dillon. Finally, after a while she will pick up and start talking herself. Then you can bounce off that, tease, make fun. This is the best anyway since anything ab…

> Second, you can rely on props

I’ve clearly got no idea how people are dating these days…

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#128

Post by cassepipe »

mikevm wrote: post #68
antihero wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly is “messed up” about open relationships and making out with strangers?

An open relationship is an abusive relationship, even if on the surface it doesn't look like one. You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them - there has to be some kind of an investment. If you let your partner be intimate sexually with other people then that is definitely bound to happen. And if that doesn't scare you, then you don't really care about him/her. In most cases this is pretty much cuckoldr…

"You cannot love a partner without fearing of losing them"

Maybe you are mistaking your love for someone with your fear of being alone ?

Open relationships, and poly relationships even more, are difficult for many reasons I can't bother to detail here. There is of course a certain inequality in the access to sex that you are pointing out even though you are leaving out many other very important parameters in your example. But there is also a great inequality on how people are able to decouple intimacy/sex with a strong bond with someone, which can make someone suffer even if he or she did not think it would, leaving behind a mess of hurt feelings. But believe it or not, different people experience feelings for people differently and just calling them cold robots is just an easy way for you negate their existence, as some believed lesbians could not exist, they had to be frustrated heterosexual that had not met the right man.

Anyways your vision of the whole thing seems to be pretty much informed by your resentment (They are not even paying for dinner!) and it is not that hard to find someone to have sex with you as a man. Having some emotional intelligence, basic social skills, not having a definite vision of what gender roles are, and in general not being an asshole will help a lot, adding to that women are for cultural reasons less sensitive than men to attractiveness. What's funny with incels is that they complain they can't get laid but what they mean in general is that can't have sex with the most attractive women and make fun of less attractive women, in doing so revealing that what they are after is the social status of being validated by them and not to get to share a moment of pleasure and intimacy with someone else.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#129

Post by jawarner »

A lot of comments here missing the point of the article. People are quick to blame apps for dating pain. Reading the article, very few of the author's points are caused by the app-ification of dating. It is easy to blame "the corporations" for social issues. Let's get specific about what is happening.

The article does offer good insight, which I'll highlight here:

1. The root of many dating issues is a lack of communication:

> When I was in my late teens or early 20s I would sometimes be in the early stages of dating someone and feel like there was a glass wall between us, I just didn’t really get them, I didn’t know what they wanted from me, and it was so hard for me to have any clarity about who they really are.

2. Most people in their decision-making around relationships are reacting to social pressure rather than following their self-awareness. As an example:

> Most people turn to frameworks: either I’m religious, so I’ll wait until marriage, or I don’t think sex is sacred, so I guess I’m open to casual sex

3. In modern dating people tend to have more options, and this magnifies the need for (1) open communication and (2) honest introspection.

Re: The Agony of Eros: Dating

#130

Post by cassepipe »

mikevm wrote: post #126
lolc wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, not all people look at their relationship in that specific "work for sex" way. Read up on "invisible labor" if you want to understand why women in particular could get offended by your perspective. If you're looking for such a relationship, I'm sure you'll find a mate on those terms. But don't claim that this is the only way. And please accept that other people may prefer other setups.

> Eh, not all people look at their relationship in that specific "work for sex" way. I'm not talking just about relationships, I'm talking about the asymmetric access men and women have to sex. This is an undeniable fact of life. If a man wants to get laid tonight, he will have to work hard, and his chances are not that high. That's why ~80% of the prostitutes are women... most women just don't need to pay for sex.

Yes that's an undeniable fact of life but that's not the only one informing men/women relationships, not even the main one. It seems though that is the only one you care about

Your point of view is so informed by your situation and has so little empathy that you don't even acknowledge the large portion of women that are not deemed to be fuckable by men and are derided for that, whether because of age, or body type or sometimes because they talk too loud

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