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Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

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Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#81
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's really no difference between a person proudly declaring they only like "white" people and a person declaring they only like "tall" people. I get where you're coming from -- criticizing people for what they are, rather than for what they do, is exceedingly unfair -- but I can think of at least three important differences, chief among which are: 1. The shortness of men (barring outright dwarfism) has never bee…

Height does appear to be correlated with income[1]. So it’s entirely possible that discrimination has existed and continues to exist. People seem to think that because something is difficult to measure, it isn’t there, but that simply isn’t true. Lookism could also be a big problem, but the causal effects of being unattractive are hard to identify. Imagine trying to assemble a treatment and control group for that. Wh…

>even if it isn’t as “bad” can’t it still recognized as a lesser form of bigotry?

Yes. In fact, that's exactly what I said.

It's also worth calling out the sheer madness of equating height discrimination to racism, and pretending not to see the problem.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#82
post #69

> “Don’t be so sure of yourself, short man!” The problem is that it's still socially acceptable to see short stature as some objective faux-pas. There's really no difference between a person proudly declaring they only like "white" people and a person declaring they only like "tall" people. If the guy said "Don't be so sure of yourself, black man" maybe it would have been acceptable in the 1920s, but it surely isn't…

Quoted post unavailable.

> This reads like pure cope from a short guy. I don't see how one can dictate to others what they should find attractive. That's not how it works.

No one is dictating anything about attractiveness, and you really shouldn't be trying to marginalize my arguments on the ground that I might be short. It really has no relevancy here. I wasn't talking about dating and people's dating preferences. I was referring specially to the person receiving a derogatory comment about his stature, that was in the context of normal socializing. Again, it is not socially or morally acceptable to deride someone for their skin color, and my point is that it's equally unacceptable to do so on another genetic trait such as height. Just because that random man did not find the height adjusted man to be attractive or not has no bearing on whether he has the right to express derision about his height in such a nonchalant manner. I mean, it shouldn't be made illegal, but it shouldn't be socially acceptable either assuming all parties are not toxic and want to be part of well-intenioned society.

However, if we want to shift the topic to dating/attractiveness, your statement applies to people's "preferences" on race as well. OK Cupid published these preferences against black woman (and also Asian men) on their site. We can use this as an example because it's been more in the spotlight than the topic of stature, and easier to see my point.

My opinion on this is that if you are short/Black/Asian and dating then just skip to the next person who can't see past superficial physical qualities. Usually it's a sign of dating inexperience anyways. It's a free market, and the winners will be those that are able to make a decision beyond superficial factors. Many people can't see past the superficial qualities as trivial as a candidate being a woman instead of a man, and the same thing applies here. It's their loss. Societal trends will always lag reality. We can't force people to get up to speed, nor should we (and I never advocated for this). The best thing to do is to simply reward those who are prescient.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it shouldn’t be used in a derogatory manner, but it’s a fact that people have preferences in who they prefer to breed with. In fact that’s the reason why we are what we are in a positive way. You are being disingenuous or have genetic maladaptive screening of partners if you think otherwise and that maladaptation is naturally evolved away.

My point is that preferences are malleable and there is no objective reality or grounding in modern society for short stature being an undesirable trait (at least going forward). My hypothesis is that short stature historically has been attributed to malnutrition, and therefore destitution as well, which has shaped modern day preferences, but perception lags reality. EDIT: Also I should add that people are reading my…

You are overestimating and being too kind on “modernity”. Even if today short stature is not a disadvantage (and that’s a big if), it can perfectly well be in one month, after a war or pandemic breaks out, or in a generation when your children will be shorter because of current preferences.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#84

I mean women suffer from this too, my gf is 5.1 and constantly complains about not finding things in her size, not being able to reach stuff, so I mean, i suppose it is a real disadvantage I can imagine how humilitating it must feel if someone has to get a milkcrate to put in your garage so you can reach a shelf.

i'm sorry but if my only concerns as a shorter man were not reaching things on the shelf my life would be immensely better

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that preferences are malleable and there is no objective reality or grounding in modern society for short stature being an undesirable trait (at least going forward). My hypothesis is that short stature historically has been attributed to malnutrition, and therefore destitution as well, which has shaped modern day preferences, but perception lags reality. EDIT: Also I should add that people are reading my…

You are overestimating and being too kind on “modernity”. Even if today short stature is not a disadvantage (and that’s a big if), it can perfectly well be in one month, after a war or pandemic breaks out, or in a generation when your children will be shorter because of current preferences.

Isn't the opposite equally plausible? Tall people kind of stand out in foxholes, and they require more calories that may not be available in desperate times.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Not trying to guess your height, but it seems you got personally attacked by the fact that society in general looks down on short guys. Different from skin colour, there's an evolutionary trait to height preference. Studies have shown that heterosexual women prefer partners taller than them. It's understandable this subconscious bias. And what seems like discrimination, it's just a…

I don't mean to argue that people shouldn't have preferences, but do you know many men who have breast and hip size requirements for a partner and wouldn't consider someone under those measurements? I'm sure there are some, but I can't imagine that's true of the vast majority of men. There's something rather different about a man's height.

I think it's erroneous to think someone who demands a 6'3 guy won't settle for someone shorter. Those "requirements" as listed on a dating profile are about as strict as "5 years experience with a framework that was released 4 years ago" on a job posting. They're an ideal, There aren't enough men in the world to meet the "6'-6'3" requirement and the majority of would-be partners will have to settle.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#87
Short stature actually is objectively a disadvantage in dating and the workplace for men.

However, as someone who is barely 5'7", I have never found there to be a lot of joking or something about it or anything really in my face.

I know it has affected me. But I also don't really feel inferior in any way. Compared to human males overall I am fairly close to average in height.

But really my self-worth is based on things like integrity and problem solving ability. So if I don't trigger a mating instinct in a lot of females that's too bad, but I don't actually feel like a lesser person or something.

I actually believe that within a few hundred years unaugmented biological humans are going to be mainly irrelevant. Things will be run by AIs/robots with far superior intellects and capabilities, along with some cyborgs (maybe).

In fact, I believe that the human form will become passé among intelligent agents.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#88

> “Don’t be so sure of yourself, short man!” The problem is that it's still socially acceptable to see short stature as some objective faux-pas. There's really no difference between a person proudly declaring they only like "white" people and a person declaring they only like "tall" people. If the guy said "Don't be so sure of yourself, black man" maybe it would have been acceptable in the 1920s, but it surely isn't…

[deleted]

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#89

If height is so important, why not relocate? I'm 6.2, but Northern European, and I see myself as quite average around these parts, and often meet people taller than me. When I lived in Argentina, I felt like a giant. South tends to have shorter people, so perhaps if you feel out of place, you'd feel more in-place there. Just a thought. At least I'd rather do that than undergo such a treatment.

And what do you do if you're short in the south?

Address the mental issues that are causing you to fixate on height and how others perceive you.

Re: Limb lengthening surgery is becoming more popular

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that preferences are malleable and there is no objective reality or grounding in modern society for short stature being an undesirable trait (at least going forward). My hypothesis is that short stature historically has been attributed to malnutrition, and therefore destitution as well, which has shaped modern day preferences, but perception lags reality. EDIT: Also I should add that people are reading my…

You are overestimating and being too kind on “modernity”. Even if today short stature is not a disadvantage (and that’s a big if), it can perfectly well be in one month, after a war or pandemic breaks out, or in a generation when your children will be shorter because of current preferences.

It can, but hasn't. Our prejudice against short people is almost certainly a result of past associations with malnutrition and poverty. I can't speak for other reasons, but this reason for short stature is no longer a main cause in modern Western (or even Eastern) society. Plus what you say about the fickleness of advantage/disadvantage equally applies to tall stature. Maybe Ryanair will start charging tall people extra next month.

Your comment shows your hand on your prejudice, because you're still somewhat commenting from the viewpoint that tallness is still an inherent positive trait. That clearly didn't work out for the dinosaurs. I'm not saying the opposite is true (that shortness is an inherent positive trait), but I do believe we need to dispel our preconceived notions because they are very short-sighted.

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