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Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

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Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#271
post #50

And here in the western world, people still don't like using public transport and their bikes (when they can). It's difficult to be optimistic, but it seems there is nothing that will truly limit fossil fuel consumption. Maybe some oil producing countries could get in some sort of alliance, and artificially limit the amount of oil they extract, in return for subsidies? Those countries could also put a tariff on oil.…

You mean the US, because in a lot of european countries, we very much like using our public transports and bikes

The European 'we' who like using public transit and bike is unfortunately a small minority.

In France, if you add those two modes, you barely get over 10-12% of the number of moves people make.

The number of cars has again increased by 10% in the last decade. It has doubled since the 80s, when we thought that almost everyone who needed a car had one, and that they were already too many and had bad influence urban planning and many other aspects. The progression seems to never stop.

It's a flood of cars. If I take my municipality, there are more individual cars and vans than people who can drive them. It is not uncommon to see households with 3 or 5 cars. Cars are parked everywhere (rarely on owners' property, though); and that's before city people come over for the week-end or holidays (2/3 of houses are secondary residences)...

Everywhere but in large cities, local elected officials keep on pushing projects of motorways 'for economic development' like it was 1972 (a strategy which hasn't worked in 60 years, but eh...), spending tens and hundreds of millions of €, sometimes in direct competition of an existing or abandoned railroad. A case a few dozen miles away from my place: €200M for a 2 km bypass (no 0 is missing or extra). They have bottomless pockets for roads.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A wet bulb related crisis in India is used as a plot point in Kim Stanley Robinson's latest novel Ministry for the Future. The way he describes the wet bulb event is quite scary. (edit: corrected author and title, I confused this with Neal Stephenson's latest Termination Shock). Imagine something like that happening in a slum. It's the combination of humidity, temperature and poverty that is deadly. Think mass casual…

He did a talk at the Long Now Foundation recently: https://longnow.org/ideas/02021/11/10/climate-futures-beyond...

FWIW: he calls himself out in the talk on the lack of clarity between sabotage and murder.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're deep in it, aren't you? Oh well! The reality of the situation is already making itself obvious. Come out to the small coastal town I've spent the last few months in and try telling the people here that hurricanes aren't getting worse. Try to work out why everyone who can afford to do so has been getting their whole house lifted up off its foundation, onto stilts... But this place is not special, this kind of t…

You know, people 200 years ago in coastal towns would have told you the same things. Flooding is worse, more bad weather etc. It's a terrible data point. There is plenty of data that supports climate change, on a Global scale. Whether it kills millions or billions or nobody at all is simply a question of attribution.

Well, yes - you know that, and I know that; but I thought perhaps someone who can't accept the scientific consensus might find the personal choices made by residents of a conservative small town to be more relatable. Of course everywhere you go there are stories like this; whether people openly accept the reality of climate change or not, they are adapting, and you can see it wherever you look.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to substantiate your claim that we're as many as hundreds of thousands of death into the climate crisis? Weather has always killed people, perfectly natural weather by the way, so if you're going to attribute deaths specifically to human-caused climate change, a source or two would be nice to see.

No not really. There is enough information that is easy to access that anyone who wants to can. If it's not convincing to you then changing your mind in this forum isn't a project I'm interested in right now.

No, there is plenty of models showing increased likelihood of various types of weather events due to extremes. Nobody has done meaningful analysis on deaths avoided or caused by these probabilities.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should be placed on some kind of watch list. Also, How many innocent people do you think you need to kill exactly to sway the CCP.

Again I will make this point, again and again. Here, today, on HN, in this comment section, we have people endorsing mass population culling of the most dispossessed people on earth, and the least responsible for climate change. How am I the moral transgressor for arguing, abstractly, that redirecting the harm towards those actually perpetrating it is preferable? The CCP isn't my problem honestly. Most of the major c…

Mass murders in the US won’t help if someone isn’t picking up a machine gun in China as well.

You just said “not my problem”, which means you don’t actually care about stopping climate change. You need to stop thinking about how to kill locally when the problem is global.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes are great for solving transit’s last-mile problem provided it’s at all close to the last mile and not, say, the last 15. E-bikes especially so. Beyond that, yes, transit schedules need to be frequent and reliable, with frequency especially being important if you have to make lots of transfers. It’s no big deal if you miss your train if another one will be there in a few minutes; if you have to wait 15-30 though…

Bikes are great for the last-10-mile problem, easily. I've got plenty of friends who cycle commute 15km+ each direction, each day, and are quite happy (and healthy) doing it.

That may be practical if it’s the entirety of your commute, but it’s less practical if you then have 70 minutes of riding the train immediately afterwards, right? I’m talking bikes as a response to transit’s last-mile problem.

Maybe e-bikes do change the calculus a bit there too though.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you have no solution, you just condone killing a few people in your own country because surely that will do something. The fact that you can't even understand this is a global problem and just figure "someone over there can handle that part of the project" is telling. You are a dangerous ideologue.

No one ever actually asked what my solution was! My actual position is that there does need to be an extremist counterpart to the peaceful climate movement that can plausibly escalate to violence against people. But that there are several steps along the way with chances for those in power to de-escalate first. Things like targeted destruction of fossil fuel facilities and harassment campaigns against certain politic…

> Hopefully violence isn't necessary but at this point unfortunately, the credible threat of it is.

The credible threat of violence doesn’t even work unless you can credibly threaten a huge portion of the population. Just look at how ineffective terrorism has been for the last 50 years.

Have you considered the civil rights movement was not successful because of the threat of violence but was instead successful because people actually changed their minds?

We have same sex marriage now, which was as unpopular as desegregation a couple of decades ago. When Obama went into office he was against same sex marriage. Society changed rapidly and without violence.

It likely changed so rapidly because it was not a coercive movement at all, but that’s just speculation on my behalf.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#278
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UHI is mostly due to the materials cities are made of and lack of evaporation from plant life which is why it was noticed 200 years ago. AC has such a small effect it would be hard to measure.

People are studying the effect. Passive cooling films get at the ‘materials cities are made of’ problem, by decreasing the city-wide absorptivity of heat energy. “We found that waste heat from air conditioning systems was maximum during the day but the mean effect was negligible near the surface. However, during the night, heat emitted from air conditioning systems increased the mean air temperature by more than 1 de…

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Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#279
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UHI is mostly due to the materials cities are made of and lack of evaporation from plant life which is why it was noticed 200 years ago. AC has such a small effect it would be hard to measure.

People are studying the effect. Passive cooling films get at the ‘materials cities are made of’ problem, by decreasing the city-wide absorptivity of heat energy. “We found that waste heat from air conditioning systems was maximum during the day but the mean effect was negligible near the surface. However, during the night, heat emitted from air conditioning systems increased the mean air temperature by more than 1 de…

First props that’s a peer reviewed paper so this may just be hot air on my part.

Anyway, their using the most extreme data that they can find to base their calculations which is rather suspect. They regularly mention 65% of electricity useable for AC, but that’s peak during a heatwave not the general average etc.

Still, a peak of 0.5-1C at night and ~0C in the daytime is a much larger effect than I was expecting especially when nighttime energy usage for AC is only averaging around 1W/M2 in their data.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#280
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is left out because the government behavior there for the past few decades has been to deprioritize climate change entirely. Until they take some kind of initiative in leading the world in reducing CO2, European countries are likely where this innovation will be. Right now both the US and China are the problem, this has nothing to do with “white”.

I am in Shenzhen, and have been told by friends that it is impossible to get a license for gas powered cars. There is a strong push for all cars to be electric, electric bikes are everywhere, and all buses are electric. And China is making a push towards renewables and to reduce their dependence on coal, if only to combat air pollution. Maybe they don't talk about climate change as the reason perse, but it is wrong t…

> and in fact I would argue they have done much more than I see in my native country (the U.S.).

Is it something about discussing China that triggers people to engage in whataboutism for the US? My post that you just replied to literally just roasted the US for being shitty when it comes to climate change and your defense of China is “it might be better than the US because it’s hard to get a gas car”. GTFO with that crap.

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