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Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

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Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#261

Post by marssaxman »

radford-neal wrote: post #258
marssaxman wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard for anyone thinking carefully about climate change not to have considered the possibility that they are not right, given the decades of relentless, well-funded industry propaganda making such claims, to which you have apparently fallen victim.

I think you've fallen victim to propaganda about how much propaganda each side has put out.

You're deep in it, aren't you? Oh well! The reality of the situation is already making itself obvious. Come out to the small coastal town I've spent the last few months in and try telling the people here that hurricanes aren't getting worse. Try to work out why everyone who can afford to do so has been getting their whole house lifted up off its foundation, onto stilts... But this place is not special, this kind of thing is happening everywhere. You can see it easily enough, if you let yourself look. Up to you. Can't blame you for wanting excuses to ignore it, though; the future we are barrelling along into is a scary place.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#262

Post by TheCoelacanth »

kibwen wrote: post #206
OccamsRazr wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be my concern too. People fail to understand how in heatwaves there ceases to be cold air to move around. Everything heats up. It's brutal.

At that point you need to put your heat exchanger pipes underground, which is more annoying than air-based AC but not insurmountable. The temperature 20 feet underground will be about 50 F year-round. Of course, if a city of millions tried to do this all at once I have no idea how the local ground temperature would react.

> 20 feet underground will be about 50 F year-round

Is that the case in India? I was under the impression that while underground temperature is consistent across seasons, it does vary considerably across climates, with warmer climates generally having higher underground temperatures. For example, while much of the central US has underground temperatures around 50F, southern Florida, California and Arizona have areas with temperatures in the upper-70s[1].

[1] https://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Cooling/EarthTemperatu...

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#263

Post by mensetmanusman »

Retric wrote: post #251
mensetmanusman wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t necessarily need pumps, depending on what you are trying to do: https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact-earth/asu-testing-new-m... This is what I was thinking of in the case of India :) Edit: wanted to add, application of this technology might require government level systems thinking. With an air conditioner, that heat being moved is being pushed to your neighbor, passive cooling technology rejects much of the he…

UHI is mostly due to the materials cities are made of and lack of evaporation from plant life which is why it was noticed 200 years ago. AC has such a small effect it would be hard to measure.

People are studying the effect. Passive cooling films get at the ‘materials cities are made of’ problem, by decreasing the city-wide absorptivity of heat energy.

“We found that waste heat from air conditioning systems was maximum during the day but the mean effect was negligible near the surface. However, during the night, heat emitted from air conditioning systems increased the mean air temperature by more than 1 degree Celsius (almost 2 degrees Fahrenheit) for some urban locations,”

https://news.asu.edu/content/excess-heat-air-conditioners-ca...

“By the end of the century, greenhouse gas emissions from air conditioning will account for as much as a 0.5-degree Celsius rise in global temperatures, according to calculations by the World Economic Forum.”

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-prevent-ai...

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#264

Post by bitL »

srvmshr wrote: post #107
LightG wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally agree - but considering this conflict could (unlikely but possibly) become a world war then, yes, other countries should pay attention.

True. It does, but similar risks have come by before (in S Asia). India & Pakistan had a full confrontation in 1990s, when they were both nuclear capable & backed by Russia and US respectively. People at the helm of warcraft perhaps know where to draw the line. It is highly unlikely Putin will use tactical nukes or pre-emptively strike US/EU, no matter how grim the war looks. People do not realize that the game of br…

> It is highly unlikely Putin will use tactical nukes or pre-emptively strike US/EU, no matter how grim the war looks.

I wouldn't be so sure about this. He has working hypersonics and this advantage would last very short time. Currently those hypersonics can't be even detected in time before they hit their targets and there is no real defense against them. He might just launch 100-200 of them with 100kT payload at military/strategic targets in Europe at the same time, level down parts of countries without any response outside submarines or US strategic nukes (their flight time is in minutes anywhere in Europe, insufficient time to react), and then given Europe would be written off for a century, he can try to negotiate terms with the US, assuming MAD is given if diplomacy fails and there is a proof already (destroyed Europe).

He perceives UA effectively in NATO (given heavy arm supplies) as an existential risk for Russia, so he might go all in.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#265

Post by anthk »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #154
OccamsRazr wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was in Europe for one of the heatwaves of recent years, and whose appartment was in one of these older buildings designed this ways with thick walls etc., I can attest that this only works up to a point . This design relies on there being cold air for the building to retain. However, in a heatwave it doesn't even get cold at night. The result is your apartment gradually heating over a period of days /…

I grew in Southern Europe (around 30C every day in summer, more in full sun) when no-one had aircon at home and no-one had aircon in cars. It's hot, you live with it. I'm sure it's worse on the other side of the Med. It's one of the reasons the traditional 'siesta' exists and towns and villages are virtually dead until 5pm. The issue I have with aircon is that it makes people ignore the local climate and, worse, acti…

30c in Castilles and Madrid is nothing. Siesta for that it's ridiculous. No one does that. What we do it's to have lunch. Siesta it's for days bordering 40 and up. Also, beware of the stereotypes. You will freeze up in 3/4 of Spain if you dare to get out in shorts and flipflops on Winter as many tourists do.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#266

Post by rsync »

Minnesotans should be worried.

Several times in the past 20 years I have seen the heat index break 50C[1] and it is normal to experience >95F temperature at near 100% humidity in the summertime.

The issue with the Minnesotan climate (in both winter and summer) is that there is no moderating coastal effect for thousands of miles and it is possible for heat (and cold) to "pool" in that center of the continent.

My understanding - and also my personal experience - is that Minnesota summers are a few degrees away from being life-threatening.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minnesota_weather_reco...

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#267

Post by kldx »

throw0101a wrote: post #259
kldx wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An air conditioner already is a cooler and a dehumidifier. In a closed system, using a dehumidifier and then an evaporative cooler makes no difference. Assuming the electrical input to these is dissipated as heat, it ends up heating the room further.

> An air conditioner already is a cooler and a dehumidifier. The cold heat exchanger coil can cause condensation, which dehumidifies, but if the air temperature is 'correct' the AC control thermometer will keep the AC unit off. So you can have have an 'uncomfortable' environment because the temperature is 22C/70F but the humidity is >70%. This is why separate (whole house) dehumidifiers are often recommended: they ha…

Thanks for explaining, I didn't know about separate dehumidifiers used in addition to air conditioners.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#268

Post by kldx »

throw0101a wrote: post #259
kldx wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An air conditioner already is a cooler and a dehumidifier. In a closed system, using a dehumidifier and then an evaporative cooler makes no difference. Assuming the electrical input to these is dissipated as heat, it ends up heating the room further.

> An air conditioner already is a cooler and a dehumidifier. The cold heat exchanger coil can cause condensation, which dehumidifies, but if the air temperature is 'correct' the AC control thermometer will keep the AC unit off. So you can have have an 'uncomfortable' environment because the temperature is 22C/70F but the humidity is >70%. This is why separate (whole house) dehumidifiers are often recommended: they ha…

Does the human body still depend on evaporating sweat to cool down at 22C? I'm trying to understand why one might dehumidify when it's comfortable at 22.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#269

Post by Ntrails »

marssaxman wrote: post #261
radford-neal wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've fallen victim to propaganda about how much propaganda each side has put out.

You're deep in it, aren't you? Oh well! The reality of the situation is already making itself obvious. Come out to the small coastal town I've spent the last few months in and try telling the people here that hurricanes aren't getting worse. Try to work out why everyone who can afford to do so has been getting their whole house lifted up off its foundation, onto stilts... But this place is not special, this kind of t…

You know, people 200 years ago in coastal towns would have told you the same things. Flooding is worse, more bad weather etc. It's a terrible data point.

There is plenty of data that supports climate change, on a Global scale. Whether it kills millions or billions or nobody at all is simply a question of attribution.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#270

Post by __alexs »

K0balt wrote: post #229
__alexs wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cite your sources? This is 10x any estimate I've seen.

Look into the papers collected by the ipcc. The ipcc is the most conservative possible estimates that every member nation can unanimously agree on, and many are big carbon export nations. Even the ipcc report this year says we are fubared.

Not disagreeing on fubared but the reports I've read say 4C by 2100. Not 20.
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