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Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

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Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#251

Post by Retric »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #208
Retric wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, that’s your problem it’s about 2400Wh of heat moved per day per m2. A solar panel should be collecting ~1600Wh/day of electricity/m2, but an AC can then use that electricity to remove ~4,800Wh of heat. And that’s assuming you need to remove heat 24/7/365. A solar panel can also provide electricity when cooling is unnecessary. Things get even worse if you need pumps etc to circulate a fluid under the film, which i…

Don’t necessarily need pumps, depending on what you are trying to do: https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact-earth/asu-testing-new-m... This is what I was thinking of in the case of India :) Edit: wanted to add, application of this technology might require government level systems thinking. With an air conditioner, that heat being moved is being pushed to your neighbor, passive cooling technology rejects much of the he…

UHI is mostly due to the materials cities are made of and lack of evaporation from plant life which is why it was noticed 200 years ago. AC has such a small effect it would be hard to measure.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#252

Post by radford-neal »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #216
ch4s3 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the setup for that book was interesting, but it's probably his worst book IMHO (though I haven't read all of them). Normally I'm careful about attributing the actions of characters to novelists, but Robinson seems to be increasingly advocating terrorism in his books and it's getting really off-putting.

There's an internally consistent moral argument that terrorism is warranted in this situation eg Malm's "How to Blow Up a Pipeline." The basic argument is that peaceful protest is effective when it is an alternative to a more militant and disruptive extremist movement with the same goals. You negotiate with the peaceful side so the violent side doesn't tear your shit down. When there is no extremist movement, you rea…

For terrorism to be morally justified, you have to be right that the alternative is millions of deaths. Have you considered the possibility that you are not right?

I mean, really considered? Not, my friends all think the same way, and so do the charismatic politicians I prefer, so it must be true?

You could start with your "tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths into the climate crisis" claim, which is highly dubious. Have you swallowed the false claim that hurricanes and tornadoes are worse now than before? Are you looking at net deaths, for instance counting not just higher deaths in heat waves, but also fewer deaths in cold snaps? And are you accounting for the beneficial effect of higher food production due to CO2 fertilization?

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#253

Post by jjav »

iknownothow wrote: post #156

Just a personal anecdote to provide some context of how hot it really is. I'm from the south of India and now live in Europe. My body tolerates heat quite well compared to my European friends. I remember tolerating 38-40C indoor temperatures and sleeping through it with heavy sweating. But air temperature of 42C is where I draw the line. It is almost biologically impossible to survive this. So this story isn't just a…

> If air temperature reaches 44C, it's impossible to survive this without artificial cooling

Humidity is the other key factor though.

When younger I remember a day of walking all around Phoenix for many hours on a day where it was 122F (50C) and while it felt like being inside an oven, it was ok because humidity was close to 0%.

But high humidity with high temperatures is what makes it unsurvivable.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#254

Post by kylehotchkiss »

systemvoltage wrote: post #123
kburman wrote: post #100

Never knew Himalayan range is so effective. India should build artificial mountain range to stop heat weave entering the region.

Why? It’s easier to just invent fusion and get air conditioning going at the national level. Or just paint the entire country white.

India has painted entire cities before! (Jodhpur blue, Jaipur pink)

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#255

Post by kylehotchkiss »

wewxjfq wrote: post #18
eklavya wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, why care for the poor population even when Europe is busy buying oil for itself. It’s not like per capita consumption of the west is 10x or greater.

Europe is stopping it, India is asking for more. 140 countries could condemn the war in an UN vote - India couldn't.

In India’s defense, not much of the world has condemned china’s aggression at the Indian border over the past 2 years, and this has factored into India’s response on Ukraine

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#256

Post by Etheryte »

refurb wrote: post #247
Etheryte wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the other comment already pointed out, the study linked in the article [0] makes it clear that it's not the case that 1901 was the hottest March, but instead 1901 is the year that data gathering began. The warmest March on record was 2010. > Characteristics of Average maximum, minimum and mean temperature for the country as a whole and over four homogenous region during March 2022 and its comparison since 1901 > […

By 1 thousandth of a degree C?

Your observation is correct that for all practical intents and purposes, this March was as hot as the hottest March ever recorded since bookkeeping began in 1901.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#257

Post by marssaxman »

radford-neal wrote: post #252
giraffe_lady wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an internally consistent moral argument that terrorism is warranted in this situation eg Malm's "How to Blow Up a Pipeline." The basic argument is that peaceful protest is effective when it is an alternative to a more militant and disruptive extremist movement with the same goals. You negotiate with the peaceful side so the violent side doesn't tear your shit down. When there is no extremist movement, you rea…

For terrorism to be morally justified, you have to be right that the alternative is millions of deaths. Have you considered the possibility that you are not right? I mean, really considered? Not, my friends all think the same way, and so do the charismatic politicians I prefer, so it must be true? You could start with your "tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths into the climate crisis" claim, which is highly dubiou…

It would be hard for anyone thinking carefully about climate change not to have considered the possibility that they are not right, given the decades of relentless, well-funded industry propaganda making such claims, to which you have apparently fallen victim.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#258

Post by radford-neal »

marssaxman wrote: post #257
radford-neal wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For terrorism to be morally justified, you have to be right that the alternative is millions of deaths. Have you considered the possibility that you are not right? I mean, really considered? Not, my friends all think the same way, and so do the charismatic politicians I prefer, so it must be true? You could start with your "tens or hundreds of thousands of deaths into the climate crisis" claim, which is highly dubiou…

It would be hard for anyone thinking carefully about climate change not to have considered the possibility that they are not right, given the decades of relentless, well-funded industry propaganda making such claims, to which you have apparently fallen victim.

I think you've fallen victim to propaganda about how much propaganda each side has put out.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#259

Post by throw0101a »

kldx wrote: post #245
rpozarickij wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The human body loses the ability to cool it self with 100% humidity I wonder whether there are practical/efficient ways of decreasing humidity in situations like this in closed spaces? So that you could use a regular fan again to cool yourself by means of evaporation of water off of your skin.

An air conditioner already is a cooler and a dehumidifier. In a closed system, using a dehumidifier and then an evaporative cooler makes no difference. Assuming the electrical input to these is dissipated as heat, it ends up heating the room further.

> An air conditioner already is a cooler and a dehumidifier.

The cold heat exchanger coil can cause condensation, which dehumidifies, but if the air temperature is 'correct' the AC control thermometer will keep the AC unit off.

So you can have have an 'uncomfortable' environment because the temperature is 22C/70F but the humidity is >70%. This is why separate (whole house) dehumidifiers are often recommended: they have a separate hygrometers that cause the unit to start, regardless of what the temperature is.

Re: Nearly the hottest place on Earth, India swelters under intense heat wave

#260

Post by ncmncm »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #186
Retric wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t seem to line up with the marketing you linked. “10-20% energy savings when integrated with building refrigeration and HVAC systems.” PV on the roof can normally provide 100% of the energy needed for AC.

It’s a per-unit-area comparison: https://www.betonconsultingeng.com/passive-radiative-cooling... “”SkyCool arrays work by cooling a fluid that moves below the panels and is pumped through refrigeration systems. The cooling helps reduce the run time of motors in the refrigeration system to reduce electricity consumption. All told, the SkyCool system can reject heat at about 100 watts per square meter, saving between 4…

It is always a mistake to engage with this Retric. He just posts random remarks which do not stand up to a moment's scrutiny, but hopes they will seem plausible enough to derail meaningful discussion.

We have a word for that.

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