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Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

backreaction.blogspot.com

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Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#151

I really think this paper should be more widely known, because it's eye opening: https://physicsdetective.com/something-is-rotten-in-the-stat... It made me realize QED is the equivalent of a million lines spaghetti codebase that's been continually built upon, fudge after fudge since the 40s, while being sold as the best thing ever, the ultimate model of reality, etc. While it really started as a temporary solution li…

Newton didn't predict the exact constant of acceleration, he predicted the form of the equation and experiment fills in the rest. There is no conspiracy of "fitting the equations", that's the whole point of experimental physics.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#152
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that like the German Christmas Pickle tradition that no Germans have heard of? https://youtu.be/Sb0qu_RjQ6I

That was excruciating. Just like the "Oktoberfests" that take place in America. It's a shit-show.

They also tend to be in the wrong month.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to many metrics, it seems the world is indeed improving over time. The news is a poor source for evaluating the net sum of human suffering - the incentive model is all wrong. https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_pinker_is_the_world_getting...

As the island of improvement grows, so grows the shores of suffering. But can a dataset really encapsulate human suffering? Is there a lower percent of people suffering but are they each suffering more individually? What is the quality of the suffering? Is it better to suffer 30 years with pain or to die after a month of it?

> But can a dataset really encapsulate human suffering?

Yes

> Is there a lower percent of people suffering but are they each suffering more individually?

No

> What is the quality of the suffering?

Lower

> Is it better to suffer 30 years with pain or to die after a month of it?

Depends on quality of life.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#154
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The HN-centric term for this is "middlebrow"; a good middlebrow filter is definitely required to navigate HN.

Can you elaborate?

ya i aint never heard the term b4 neither. colorful. wonder if middlebrow refers to furrowing between teh browz??>

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#155

Well this is kind of funny and I mostly agree so TLDR: > "I’m afraid all of this sounds rather negative. Well. There’s a reason I left particle physics. Particle physics has degenerated into a paper production enterprise that is of virtually no relevance for societal progress or for progress in any other discipline of science. The only reason we still hear so much about it is that a lot of funding goes into it and so…

While she makes the rounds on HN, it is really worth noting that as she says, Sabine Hossenfelder is more or less a pariah amongst particle physicists, as was Lee Smolin before her. It's disappointing though because I largely agree with her assessment, too much of particle physics has left what I would consider science and is now a paper generation exercise (not that that isn't throughout science, but particle theory is even more so in that direction).

This is one of those places where peer-review fails, if you study or proclaim something against the prevailing norms. There is a slight hope for you if you're a well known name already, like Hossenfelder, but it's pretty much a death sentence for you if you're at a no-name university somewhere. There really is no motivation to pierce the wall vs. just silently doing little incremental work that continues the current established theory even when on a whole that theory is leading the field nowhere.

Usually, at some point the funding dries up but they're lucky all the big famous names are sympathetic to particle physics and it continues to command a large amount of funding amongst those studying fundamental physics. So things march on.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#156
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was excruciating. Just like the "Oktoberfests" that take place in America. It's a shit-show.

They also tend to be in the wrong month.

Depends, when are they? The real Oktoberfest starts mid September. (Don’t ask.)

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#157

Well this is kind of funny and I mostly agree so TLDR: > "I’m afraid all of this sounds rather negative. Well. There’s a reason I left particle physics. Particle physics has degenerated into a paper production enterprise that is of virtually no relevance for societal progress or for progress in any other discipline of science. The only reason we still hear so much about it is that a lot of funding goes into it and so…

Sabine went on full rant/iconoclastic/grudge mode IMO recently. It's a shame, as she a good communicator, but I just see myself skipping her content when it pops up. “I left the field because it's a paper production machine that adds no value to society” without substantiation is simply a frustration ridden meme.

I feel like everytime her name comes up, its always a bunch of comments like "i don't like her tone" or whatever, but never much in way of substantiated disagreement.

I can't help but wonder if she is just speaking uncomfortable truths about things a lot of the hn audience like, where nobody can really come up with a counter per se but there is still a negative gut reaction of i-don't-like-people-challenging-my-world-view so the criticism comes out as, i dont mind your view i just hate the way you say it.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Onsager was a bastard with omitting details. He has a 1949 paper on packing of hard rods (and other anisometric particles), which is 4 pages long, but a colleague who went through the details of the derivation spent half a year and filled a ring binder with intermediate calculations.

Damn. I never actually learned this stuff. Is there a good textbook account of this isotropic-to-nematic transition that includes full details? Or is there still a gaping hole in the published literature? In other words, did your colleague do this as a kind of history project, or because the details weren't available anywhere else?

I don't think there are textbooks on this stuff, it is too much of a niche, you probably need to read journal papers. A place to start might be the classic "What is liquid?" review paper by Barker and Henderson:

https://link.aps.org/pdf/10.1103/RevModPhys.48.587?casa_toke...

... and then the classic review paper on liquid crystals by Stephen and Straley:

https://link.aps.org/pdf/10.1103/RevModPhys.46.617?casa_toke...

But I believe the "gaping hole" as you call it has been mostly filled by the recent work. You probably still need to spend some weeks to follow along though.

The motivation for my colleague was to develop the Onsager theory further, since Onsager only went to the second virial coefficient. They were able to go to higher-body contributions and get nice algebraic results for the equation of state, IIRC. I can probably dig up the DOI if you want to read it.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#159

Well this is kind of funny and I mostly agree so TLDR: > "I’m afraid all of this sounds rather negative. Well. There’s a reason I left particle physics. Particle physics has degenerated into a paper production enterprise that is of virtually no relevance for societal progress or for progress in any other discipline of science. The only reason we still hear so much about it is that a lot of funding goes into it and so…

> "Particle physics has degenerated into a paper production enterprise that is of virtually no relevance for societal progress [...] But the disciplines where the foundations of physics currently make progress are cosmology and astrophysics [...]" Can anybody explain the relevance of cosmology and astrophysics to societal progress? I'm sure these are very worthwhile fields of study in other respects.. but societal pr…

Cosmology and astro fundamentally can be tested. The models therein have implications on things like the Cosmic Microwave Background, so it fits "societal progress" in the sense it pushes humanity's knowledge of the universe forward.

I do think particle theory probably does push knowledge forward, the problem is it is quite a bit further from something that can be tested, it is more akin to mathematics these days where they're not really trying to describe reality because as she says, susy and friends could be morphed to fit anything. In fact, and this might be a stretch, but I feel like there is a motivation not to have predictions sometimes because then you could be proven wrong. Perhaps this is still "pushing knowledge in general forward" as opposed to knowledge that actually describes reality, similar to mathematics perhaps.

Not really related to societal progress, but the difference between particle theory with mathematics is mathematicians are actually rigorous while particle physicists get by with the usual lack of rigor (relatively) of physics in general. The argument usually employed by theorists in other physics fields is that this lack of rigor is okay because physics is science and you could always do an experiment afterwards to validate theory. Particle physics less and less has that, so, where does it sit? I feel like may be a valid path forward is for particle physicists to embrace that they are no longer really doing science and are rather doing mathematics, and probably to even adopt some of the rigor of mathematics, then particle theory could really bloom into a really valuable field of study on the "pushing general knowledge forward" side of things.

Re: Did the W-boson just “break the standard model”?

#160
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also tend to be in the wrong month.

Depends, when are they? The real Oktoberfest starts mid September. (Don’t ask.)

Well, they often start in October instead of ending just at the start of it.
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