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Is everything falling apart?

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Re: Is everything falling apart?

#891

Post by ozzythecat »

judahmeek wrote: post #606
ozzythecat wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d like to make a meta response to your post not about specific points you raised but how you made your point. I’ve been a fairly progressive or at least liberal my whole life. I also like to look at what the data tells us. I’m not certain that looking at “data” means we have real facts. At best, we have some quantitative representation that fits the narrative being pushed by its creators. Within progressive circles…

All you're saying is that you like your narrative & you intend to stick to it despite any contradicting evidence that may be presented. It's true that data must be judged for relevance & validity, but to just discard it in preference of your opinion is really egotistical. Also, statistical data doesn't offer solutions; it only presents a broader perspective than one's collection of anecdotes. So your example of Seatt…

> All you're saying is that you like your narrative & you intend to stick to it despite any contradicting evidence that may be presented.

Not at all.

I’m simply saying that anyone can fudge the numbers and claim to have “data” to support their argument.

> Also, statistical data doesn't offer solutions; it only presents a broader perspective than one's collection of anecdotes.

It offers an easily distortable “perspective”, and the same dataset is often misrepresented and twisted for convenience.

It’s a recurring theme, especially in leftist politics. Using “data” to spin a narrative and tell people the sky is pink when they can clearly see it’s blue.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#892

Post by tbrownaw »

scrubs wrote: post #497
oicU00 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah no doubt; I collate trends into reports for rich investors. Lately they have been focused on youth trends, and some numbers are wacky. 40% point drop in 16 year olds getting a license since the 80s as urbanization puts people closer to stuff and ride share appeared. Youth participation in sports, especially full contact sports, had been going down since before covid which just accelerated it, leading to forec…

I like these points: * We engineered away stability for JIT Yep. It would not kill us to recognize that globalization went 20% too far, and that supply chains in the US is good for us. We also have to deal with the fact that job loss v. cheaper goods has gone too far too. We need to swing back to a more US focused economy. Ex: I recently ordered brakes from a US company. They were out of stock of my model. I asked wh…

> I think we also need to recognize that almost all real gains since 1985 have gone to the top 5%.

Cars are a lot safer now and last longer. I think houses are bigger. The Internet is new. Most consumer electronics are new, and TV's are way better.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#893

Post by nradov »

93po wrote: post #840
dukeofdoom wrote: post #831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organized religion helped to defeat Communism, and tempered dictatorial control of many despots in the middle east. So your statement is far removed from reality.

> Organized religion helped to defeat Communism Looks like this is helping the argument that religion is a net negative

How so?

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#894

Post by tbrownaw »

celticninja wrote: post #815
coldtea wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or that's a facile thought, that doesn't take into consideration second order effects and utility, only whether "god is true" or not...

Organized religion is a different kind of societal harm, where personal religion can be good or bad, organized religion will always be a net negative.

> organized religion will always be a net negative.

There are clear benefits to organized social stuff. For whatever reason, religions appear to be more effective at this than secular groups. One of the more "fun" theories I've seen is that this is because religious beliefs are often nonsensical and costly.

For large scale events, I'm not convinced that nations that tried to do away with organized religion got better outcomes for it.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#895

Post by quantum_magpie »

lampshades wrote: post #642
judahmeek wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider basing my worldview on emotion-based fantasies mentally robust. Is it possible that believing a lie increases ones chances of being happy & less depressed? Sure, but that doesn't make it worthwhile.

Or maybe it's not a lie and believers are genuinely happier and less depressed.

Believers are also encouraged to go their local cult leader instead of seeking professional help, so they are not included in these statistics.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#896

Post by mym1990 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #449
mym1990 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was just going to say this. We have gotten away from any kind of accountability as a standard, and some of that is driven by the fact that our leadership(no one specific, talking about the state of global leadership currently) shows no accountability either.

The system is wrong. It already has been corrupted to a very large degree, because, surprise, people who gained power, like to retain it and an average power broker is as willing to let go of it as an average mollusc attached to a rock. The problem is that workable solution within the confines of the system requires somewhat educated populace. Or maybe not educated given the state of education in US. I do see signs o…

Isn’t some of this power dynamic just human nature to a degree? Those in power often have a hard time believing that someone else would do a better job. Power is truly a corrupting force over a long enough time span, even for those that start out with the best intentions.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#897

Post by derbOac »

subsubzero wrote: post #673
treis wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder about people that post things so divorced from reality. We have five times as many college grads today as we did in 1960: https://www.statista.com/statistics/184260/educational-attai...

Maybe the problem now is we have too many college educated people and not enough high paying jobs to offset the cost of those people's education costs. Leading to #1 people working terrible jobs they were not educated for, #2 leaving these same people with a huge boulder of student loan debt that is hard to be paid off due to #1. Its a classic problem of supply and demand. In addition people's degree choices do not r…

IMHO I think part of the problem is that there's been a shift in how degrees are interpreted. It used to be someone wasn't equated with their degree so closely, like a branding. The idea of a liberal arts degree was not to be unknowledgeable about STEM, but diversified.

Now you have automated HR depts and someone is equated with their degree one way or another. It's not really that different from ads for knowledge of particular programming library, when the potential hire clearly could pick it up in a week based on their other experiences.

This isn't all of it of course but I do think people tend to be treated as objects, no more or less than their degrees or certifications to a greater extent than the past. It's the dark side of meritocracy in my opinion, which is a horrendous mislabel.

Sometimes I feel as if we live in a world of formalized stereotyping, where the stereotypes have shifted from race and sex to some extent, to political, employment, and degree stereotypes.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#898

Post by sammalloy »

godshatter wrote: post #838
sammalloy wrote: post #811

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism I’ve spent a lot of time looking into that kind of skepticism. It turns out, the vast majority of people who say they are "skeptical" of journalism adhere to far right, conspiracy-laden fringe news sites that create fake news and cast doubt on science. It’s safe to say that the entire "skeptical of journalism" meme can be traced to a handful of billionaires wh…

All it takes to be skeptical of journalism is to see how they handle a topic you personally know a lot about. No far right conspiracies required.

That’s quite a broad brushed, generalization don’t you think? Also, it’s expecting journalism to be a perfect discipline run by imperfect humans. Skepticism is needed in just about every field; journalism is no exception or special case.

In any case, intellectual honesty is needed here. The case against journalism comes primarily from those on the far right, from people who peddle pseudoscience, and from the rich and powerful.

They don’t want to be held accountable, and they don’t want the public to know what they are doing. Anyone who has spent an hour looking into this issue knows this is true.

Billionaires like the Kochs and Mercers (and many others) have people on their staff ready to do a hit job on any journalist or media organization who dares to shine the light on their behavior.

Going after journalists is what all good authoritarians have on their wish list. Anyone who sides with this kind of bad behavior and has been taken in by these anti-democratic impulses is part of the problem.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#899

Post by basisword »

jaqalopes wrote: post #756
basisword wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that buying property has become very difficult, what has changed in 2022 that prevents you from getting a stable white collar job or finding a partner? If you have the requisite skillset (which can be acquired more easily than ever thanks to the internet) getting a stable white collar job is very possible. And in the age of dating apps, so much friction has been removed when it comes to finding a partne…

While I know you inteded this as a direct question, I'm actually going to give a meta-response. It seems to me that you think that the problem I'm outlining in my "train" analogy is that I personally am not on the train. To the contrary, the problem is that there is a train at all. Even if/when I manage to climb safely aboard, I'll have left behind an entire class of people who weren't so lucky. Smart, capable people…

Regarding career choice, I completely agree. People doing important useful work (e.g. teaching) should be paid enough to have a comfortable life. They should be able to buy a home, go on vacation, have a family, and not struggle financially. I guess I was looking at it from a more “realistic” point of view. I think, sadly, this is what people need to do. There are career paths I wish I could take but unfortunately they don’t pay well enough, even though they should, and I have to code useless crap instead. So I think it’s possible to have a comfortable white collar career (relatively easily if you are intelligent, hard working, and willing to move to a major city) but unfortunately it may not be fulfilling or noble.

Regarding dating, I got off the market just before covid. But - I didn’t date for the majority of my 20’s due to pretty bad anxiety. After finally starting dating (using apps) I’d found a long term partner within 6 months. I feel like, if I could do it almost anyone can. Maybe things have got really weird but it’s worth maybe reconsidering your expectations etc.

>> The issue is, net net, lots of people are struggling.

I completely agree. Things need to change. However in the meantime, I think it’s still possible to “play the game” and succeed. The problem is it may be incredibly unfulfilling.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#900

Post by Melting_Harps »

throwawaygh wrote: post #854
Melting_Harps wrote: post #850

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eds, meds, and beds can't be outsourced, which is why they're increasingly too expensive for workers. Fix the first problem above and the second will follow. Education has been forcefully disrupted, by the institutions themselves no less: Zoom School proved what most of us knew all along, most institutions are just costly degree mills with little to no emphasis on truly educated their students. I personally attend…

> Zoom School proved what most of us knew all along I'm not sure how things are in the UK, but the sentiment in the US is that Zoom schooling was an unmitigated disaster. I was bullish on remote education prior to COVID, but interacting with the output of remote learning (at work and in volunteer work) has completely changed my mind. COVID was nowhere near a perfect experiment, but what evidence we can glean overwhel…

> I was bullish on remote education prior to COVID, but interacting with the output of remote learning (at work and in volunteer work) has completely changed my mind. COVID was nowhere near a perfect experiment, but what evidence we can glean overwhelming contributes to evidence to the "remote learning sucks for at least a majority of students of all ages" side of this debate.

I feel it's still rather early to say that, we're still on at the optimization level but it's clear things definitely need to be improved (I still haven't received my final scores despite knowing I have 1st honors for my first year with a plugin that has a SQL lookup), but with that said I also got to sit in Master level lectures in AI and ML at Stanford with Dr. Andrew Ng while I was attending my intro courses and for not much money I could have gotten credit for it, too.

I think this appeals most to autodidacts as we get to choose what and how I want to learn, which as a self-taught programmer helps a lot to stay motivated. I'm on a Performance based admission enrollment: previous fintech founder, with professional experience in a mega-corp after being head-hunted for said fintech startup.

It could also be because I was so deeply disillusioned with my first BSc in Biology that I see this as a more suitable outcome for a working professional; I had launched my 2nd business my Junior year of HS and it was starting to get quite a bit of traction in the middle of my Freshman year. University was always my plan B and I treated as such, but since I was paying for it I valued flexibility over actual substance--my discipline and focus as a cellular and molecular biologist was widely used in research but despite going to a good research university in the middle of the Capital of biotech (San Diego) it was woefully underwhelming.

I still speak with my one of my Biochem professors and things haven't progressed much from back then, either.

In my experience after having worked at a megacorp in tech that came from an open-source project (Bitcoin, or Blockchain) I just don't think the on-campus model has done much to earn my trust either. People with MSc and PhDs were showing some incredibly sophomoric mistakes with even basic things like annotations that I thought were understood when you started to make learn to make commits on github. I could make a prototype with limited supervision, despite being forced to do it in Soliditiy which remains a horribly buggy lang, where as they couldn't do much without lots of hand-holding from someone that was forced to learn how to code from free tutorials, youtube videos, hanging out #IRC and tons of hours on Stack overflow.

I self admit I'm not even very good as a developer either, I just knew what I didn't know and knew where to look and how to ask the right questions: which is something I took away from a lecture in a PhD level Virology class I sat in by accident my senior year in University.

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