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Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

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Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#261

Post by enaaem »

autoexec wrote: post #136
dwaltrip wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is overly pessimistic. Virtually everyone could vastly benefit from a relatively small investment in improving how they present themselves to the world (and to themself). The best part is, there isn't one single right way. Most people will notice and respect the effort, even if the particular style isn't their first choice. There might be other things in the way -- emotional barriers, etc -- which may be difficu…

> This is overly pessimistic. Virtually everyone could vastly benefit from a relatively small investment in improving how they present themselves to the world (and to themself). I think most people absolutely could benefit, but not necessarily enough to level the playing field with the most gorgeous among us, while for others there really may be nothing they can do to level the playing field against even the most sho…

Unless you want to become a super model, it's very unlikely that you have to compete with many ridiculous good looking people. If you're fit, clean, and well dressed you're already at the top in most industries.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#262

Post by rybosome »

timebeforeland wrote: post #83
rybosome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being attractive helps you in everything. Humans have a fundamental positive bias towards those they perceive as attractive. At the risk of sounding arrogant, let me share my personal experience. Over a period of a year in my early thirties, I became more conventionally attractive by: purchasing clothes from StitchFix (a styling service), getting my hair cut regularly by a stylist, adopting a regular grooming routine…

I would leave to hear the dark side, if you don't mind :)

Ha, I'll bite. This gets pretty personal so I'm going to mostly keep it at a high level.

The dark side is that attractiveness is a form of power. Having power changes people, especially if one has lived a large portion of their life without this particular expression of power.

Through this lens, excessive enjoyment of one's attractiveness and the impact that has on others can be seen as a form of megalomania; excessive confidence becomes arrogance, self-love becomes narcissism.

In short, it's easy to become an asshole, or mentally unwell.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#263

Post by libraryatnight »

autoexec wrote: post #87
libraryatnight wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a strategic choice - it's a bias. Good looking candidates were perceived as more competent.

I guess a strategic choice would be hiring an actor to pose for your photo

Yeah, I'm going to need a model version of myself on retainer. I'm picturing something like the surrogate setup on Arrested Development ;)

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#265

Post by racl101 »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #51
thr0waway001 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue it can hinder sometimes. I hate to say it but it probably depends on the gender. What I will say is anecdotal and probably controversial but it is just my observation: I've seen all kinds of talented male devs and there's huge variance in their looks. Some good looking and some not. But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean. Yes, profil…

> But when it comes to talented female devs: they all looked a certain type. I'll let you people decide what I mean. It's a throw away account, can you just say what you mean? Honestly no type came to mind when I did a quick mental scrollback.

Ehhh frumpy?

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#266

Post by Spooky23 »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #99
Spooky23 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually information can be used against you, but the absence does not.

IMO would suspicious for high enough positions where marketing starts to become part of the job

Great point!

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#267

Post by qayxc »

WalterBright wrote: post #258
qayxc wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I.e. don't confuse having an advantage or disadvantage with destiny. We make our own destinies by the choices we make. That's cute but very disconnected from reality.

> That's cute but very disconnected from reality. Reality is full of examples of people who have overcome disadvantages. Edison suffered severe hearing loss as a child, for example.

Good example, now imagine the same Edison (w.r.t. potential) at the same time with the same hearing loss born to a black family.

Imagine the great things a genius like Srinivasa Ramanujan could have achieved if he had the privilege of a proper formal education and wouldn't have lived at the poverty line for most his life, which ultimately caused him to die young.

For every Edison there's literally millions of (mostly) poor people, who for one reason or another (be that born with the wrong genitalia, wrong skin colour, or at the wrong place) simply never even get the chance to develop their full potential no matter how hard they try.

Denying the impact of pure happenstance on people's destiny is denying a large part of reality. Unfortunately not everyone is lucky enough to be born into a supporting family or a country that offers actual opportunities in life.

edit: basically what I'm trying to say is that it's incredibly hard to roll a 7 when using a single D6 versus someone rolling two D20s :)

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#268

Post by thaumasiotes »

autoexec wrote: post #256
thaumasiotes wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they persist to this day among the black populations. Well, light skin preference for females persists to this day in African populations and every other population. It was also present -- and documented even in Africa -- before any European presence existed, so it's strange to say that Europeans imported it. And darker skin is usually preferred for men.

> It was also present -- and documented even in Africa Do you have a source for that? I'm not disagreeing, only curious.

Peter Frost writes a lot about this. Here are two (heavily overlapping) articles:

https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2006/12/skin-color-preferen...

https://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2013/08/perception-of-skin-...

Another observation he's made is that black children are born light and darken, with a noticeable sex difference:

- Black males darken until eventually they reach adult darkness.

- Black females darken until puberty, at which point they are darker than they will be as adults. One of the changes they experience during puberty is a lightening of their skin.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#269

Post by version_five »

symlinkk wrote: post #143
version_five wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in business consulting and we always put resumes/bios with out pictures (professional headshots) in proposals. Many startups have founder / leadership pics and bios on their website Most "professionals" like lawyers have a headshot on their website. Every political campaign features the face of the candidates. Almost everyone who uses linkedin has a pic Really, western institutional job applications are pret…

> seeing what a person looks like is an important part of working with them Why?

Because we're social animals that have evolved to weight appearance very highly in decision we make. I'm not trying to justify it, but it's a fact. We're not vulcans, and even if we we're we'd recognize that what we find attractive has evolutionary significance and weigh that signal accordingly.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#270

Post by WalterBright »

qayxc wrote: post #267
WalterBright wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's cute but very disconnected from reality. Reality is full of examples of people who have overcome disadvantages. Edison suffered severe hearing loss as a child, for example.

Good example, now imagine the same Edison (w.r.t. potential) at the same time with the same hearing loss born to a black family. Imagine the great things a genius like Srinivasa Ramanujan could have achieved if he had the privilege of a proper formal education and wouldn't have lived at the poverty line for most his life, which ultimately caused him to die young. For every Edison there's literally millions of (mostly…

I don't buy the defeatism in your theory. Too many counterexamples.

I recommend you read a biography on Edison's early life.

Or just look at America itself. It was not settled by rich people, or even middle class people. It was settled by destitute people, criminals running from the law, indentured servants, and slaves.

It became the richest country in the world, with the largest and wealthiest middle class.

Why do you think millions of people desperately try to get into the US every year? What do they know that you're overlooking?

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