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Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

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Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#251

Post by xenocratus »

notahacker wrote: post #186
xenocratus wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/715141 > Notably, the magnitude of the earnings disparities along the perceived attractiveness continuum, net of controls, rivals and/or exceeds in magnitude the black-white race gap and, among African-Americans, the black-white race gap and the gender gap in earnings

That's equal to the black-white and gender gap after affirmative action programs and laws making penalising minorities and women in hiring processes illegal though....

Does it matter? The discussion above is about people obsessing right now about a subset of characteristics, while ignoring others. What happened happened, we should worry about what we can do right now to improve fairness.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#252

Post by paulryanrogers »

eru wrote: post #230
JCharante wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a merit based process shouldn't applicants be thought of as just character sheets?

Depends. Someone will have to work with those people. They don't just interact with a computer or a machine.

Right but is their name or physical appearance really that important in working together?

I've worked with people I never met, never saw their photo or real name or heard their voice. As long as they communicate somehow and produce work needed, isn't that enough?

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#253

Post by autoexec »

jpindar wrote: post #241
mcntsh wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, you're asked your ethnicity, gender, and sexuality on every job application. Just saying.

And they almost always say that that information is optional and will not afffect the hiring process.

of course if that were true they wouldn't be asking, just like how they don't ask about what brand of dish soap I use or how I feel about aardvarks or anything else that actually doesn't matter to them. I wish they'd just be honest about it.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#254

Post by autoexec »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #60
projektfu wrote: post #16

When I was in England for a short time I was tasked with screening candidates for employment (software engineers). As an American, I was taken aback by most of the resumes including photos. That's just not done here in the US. Some American HR departments might even send back your resume and ask you to resubmit it without a photo. It seems to be standard practice in Europe, perhaps to convince you that the person int…

With or without, tons of companies will do "due diligence" and will look for your FB and Insta feeds, just in case you are drunk or drugged or whatever might seem inappropriate. Kinda creepy to go such lengths, but also some companies don't want people not smart enough to not post their shenanigans publicly.

They don't even have to troll your social media accounts, your application has all the info they need to buy details from a data broker/"consumer reputation service"

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#255

Post by autoexec »

qiskit wrote: post #137
WalterBright wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tall people tend to be more relaxed in leadership roles, because they feel less of a need to prove themselves.

Nope. I remember there was a study where non-descriptive figures on paper were shown to little children and they all attributed positive traits to the taller figure and negative traits to the smaller figure. It's not about behavior, there seems to be an innate bias amongst humans towards taller people.

> there seems to be an innate bias amongst humans towards taller people.

Either that or our tall people worshiping culture had time enough to shape those children's world view. I also wonder though if children aren't a bit biased because their own parents, the people who feed and love and protect them, happen to be giants from their point of view.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#256

Post by autoexec »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #56
dwater wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally, European colonizers imported their anti-dark skin biases (colourism) to their African colonies and they persist to this day among the black populations. https://www.e-ir.info/2020/04/11/critical-reflections-on-eth...

> and they persist to this day among the black populations. Well, light skin preference for females persists to this day in African populations and every other population. It was also present -- and documented even in Africa -- before any European presence existed, so it's strange to say that Europeans imported it. And darker skin is usually preferred for men.

> It was also present -- and documented even in Africa

Do you have a source for that? I'm not disagreeing, only curious.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#257

Post by paulryanrogers »

turing_complete wrote: post #225
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but fitness is definitely a signal for discipline and mental strength No, it doesn't. Not being fit merely tells you that they might have lifestyle choices different from your own. Or they might be female with PCOS. Or they might have a disease that causes fatigue or pain when they exercise. Heck, that might be the very reason for their desk job. Or a history of food insecurity and really need the insurance the jo…

Thanks, it is not absolute certainty, it is, as I said, a "signal": It's about statistical inference. That is what you do when you meet somebody or conduct a job interview. We are not all-knowing beings. The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.

> The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.

Quite an assumption you have there. Industrial food is cheap and crowds out normal food. Some areas are basically food deserts. A significant portion of the population also has health issues that complicate maintaining a healthy weight.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#258

Post by WalterBright »

qayxc wrote: post #228
WalterBright wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tall and/or attractive people have lifelong advantages. There's nothing fair or just about it. We're each dealt a different set of cards, and it's up to us to take advantage of the good cards and make lemonade from the bad ones as best we can. I.e. don't confuse having an advantage or disadvantage with destiny. We make our own destinies by the choices we make.

> I.e. don't confuse having an advantage or disadvantage with destiny. We make our own destinies by the choices we make. That's cute but very disconnected from reality.

> That's cute but very disconnected from reality.

Reality is full of examples of people who have overcome disadvantages. Edison suffered severe hearing loss as a child, for example.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#259

Post by Brusco_RF »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #257
turing_complete wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, it is not absolute certainty, it is, as I said, a "signal": It's about statistical inference. That is what you do when you meet somebody or conduct a job interview. We are not all-knowing beings. The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science.

> The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science. Quite an assumption you have there. Industrial food is cheap and crowds out normal food. Some areas are basically food deserts. A significant portion of the population also has health issues that complicate maintaining a healthy weight.

I've always been quite skeptical of the fast-food for the simple reason that when I am strapped for cash I buy rice and beans. No processed or fast foods even come close to rice and beans on a dollar-per-calorie basis.

So called "food deserts" are a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Are the restaurants in your area a reflection of the eating habits of the people in that area, or a grand conspiracy to keep us unhealthy? I tend towards the former.

I am also skeptical that even in "food deserts" an enterprising individual can't acquire rice and beans.

Re: Hacking attractiveness biases in hiring? The role of beautifying photo-filters

#260

Post by paulryanrogers »

Brusco_RF wrote: post #259
paulryanrogers wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The overwhelming majority are overweight because their diet is poor and because they move very little. It's not rocket science. Quite an assumption you have there. Industrial food is cheap and crowds out normal food. Some areas are basically food deserts. A significant portion of the population also has health issues that complicate maintaining a healthy weight.

I've always been quite skeptical of the fast-food for the simple reason that when I am strapped for cash I buy rice and beans. No processed or fast foods even come close to rice and beans on a dollar-per-calorie basis. So called "food deserts" are a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Are the restaurants in your area a reflection of the eating habits of the people in that area, or a grand conspiracy to keep us unhealth…

For people struggling to pay rent, sometimes working multiple jobs and or with kids, there isn't a lot of energy or executive function left. And even rice and beans aren't terribly nutritious. If that's a staple for decades it can also cause obesity, especially for certain genetic demographics.
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