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Is everything falling apart?

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Re: Is everything falling apart?

#331

Post by cato_the_elder »

ModernMech wrote: post #50
incomingpain wrote: post #2

Yesterday I made the comment "everything is collapsing underneath" though there's context etc. I think the better way to say it. "Is everything falling apart for the USA?" Yes indeed. Most other countries have problems. Sure Sri Lanka has the same problems. Sure the middle east just went through the same problems and some states are still enduring civil war. Though from what I can tell it's mostly the USA in this 'fa…

> Elon tweeted this yesterday ... He has a vested incentive/interest to help make this not happen. Then why is he Tweeting nonsense cartoons that only serve to divide people? I mean, the right has stood still for the past 13 years? This perception is part of the problem. Notwithstanding actual studies (tweeted in reply to that comment) show the exact opposite has happened -- that the left has moved leftward slightly…

The point is not mostly about economic axis, but the cultural one.

In the economic axis, you could argue that at least a certain part of the Republicans has moved to the left. The emergence of the New Right [1][2] speaks to that. Or Trump's shtick of being against "unfair" free-trade deals. Or that Republicans are now the party of the working class.

[1]: https://scholars-stage.org/the-problem-of-the-new-right/

[2]: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right...

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#332

Post by stirfish »

paulpauper wrote: post #167
ravenstine wrote: post #111

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart. In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to publi…

Old institutions cannot compete with Elon Musk, YouTube, podcasts such as Rogan, and the dopamine of social media. The CDC changing minds on masks hurt confidence, for example. Someone like Musk is viewed as decisive .

I think I get what you're trying to say - that we haven't yet found a way to put our important ideas into a medium that's entertaining for us to understand, so we fall back on simpler things like sound bites and internet memes. Like, virology is hard and confusing and scary, but Elon Musk smoked weed once on camera so we'll pay attention to that instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_McLuhan#Hot_and_cool_...

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#333

Post by rtkwe »

jaqalopes wrote: post #7

I think some things are falling apart but not everything. If you had the foresight/luck/guidance to get into a stable white collar career, find a partner, and buy a house before 2022 I think you're on "the train". This train is currently pulling away from a burning station containing everyone else who hasn't done those things yet. It's still possible to escape the station by running down the tracks but at this point…

I think the 'train' is also on fire just more insulated from the burning and it'll be a bit more comfortable until your car is engulfed and disconnected. IMO the beginning of Walkaway or maybe After the Revolution is a reasonable picture of what the future will look like economically with the gap between the rich and the rest of the world continuing to widen and life outside of that becoming increasingly tenuous. I'm not bullish on major changes happening that manage to address the causes of that. How well things stay glued together like in Walkaway or we get an explosive fracturing like After the Revolution is anyone's guess.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#334

Post by drugstorecowboy »

oicU00 wrote: post #252
ravenstine wrote: post #111

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart. In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to publi…

Oh yeah no doubt; I collate trends into reports for rich investors. Lately they have been focused on youth trends, and some numbers are wacky. 40% point drop in 16 year olds getting a license since the 80s as urbanization puts people closer to stuff and ride share appeared. Youth participation in sports, especially full contact sports, had been going down since before covid which just accelerated it, leading to forec…

> “Essential workers” are pretty fucking pissed millions sat on their ass with no clue how to feed or care for themselves. They are not showing the same allegiance to shit jobs and moving on.

They never had allegiance, they didn't leave shit jobs because of fear and the fact that moving between 2 minimum wage jobs likely wouldn't improve their circumstances. People are switching jobs because its an option now where it wasn't before and it's a good way to make more money. Do you honestly believe that pre-covid people worked at McDonalds because of their desire to provide food to people?

> We engineered away stability for JIT, covid came along and proved to many we live in a Banana Republic exporting memes of exceptionalism, while most people can’t grow a potato.

This is progress. Do you believe a world where everyone grows their own crops to feed themselves is an improvement? People don't grow potatoes because it is a waste of their time when you can buy a giant bag of them for next to nothing. Something only possible because of the modern JIT economy. What you call stability is actually inefficiency and waste in disguise.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#335

Post by leereeves »

zmgsabst wrote: post #215
_usr1 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good god, enough with this "fascist and nazi seem to have lost all meaning" nonsense. Let's call it the "No true fascist fallacy". I could bring the corpse of Himmler here and some people would regurgitate the same "Bu-bu-but that's not actually fascist enough!". OP was basically quoting the definition of Ur-fascism by Umberto Eco. Is that historically accurate enough for you? Or should we check beforehand if whoever…

The reason people focus on definitions like “oh, it’s really about toxic masculinity!” is because admitting the truth would make them look bad: Fascism is a collectivist authoritarian system with regulated commerce rather than direct state control, often co-occurring with systemic racism. The reason people don’t want to be honest about the definition is that it’s the platform of modern Democrats, who are gaslighting…

> Fascism is a collectivist authoritarian system with regulated commerce rather than direct state control

That's the clearest definition of fascism I've ever heard. Where's it from?

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#336

Post by oktroomer »

4ggr0 wrote: post #308
oktroomer wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> most 'trans women' keep their penises intact, and continue to enjoy using them as a man would. These are men with a sexual fetish, not women. Disagree, fully. Thinking that genitals define your social gender is exactly the wrong thing to do. If a Trans-Woman wants to keep her genitals as they are, then she should, and this doesn't have an effect on her gender. If she wants to undergo surgery - fine. Saying that Tra…

No post body was provided.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#337

Post by bee_rider »

zozbot234 wrote: post #39
leereeves wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nations rise. ... Sometimes there's peace. In short: sometimes things aren't falling apart. For a few decades we enjoyed one of the great periods of peace and prosperity. That was surely doomed to end eventually, but I wish it could last a while longer.

It's an endless cycle. As the saying goes... Hard times make strong men Strong men make good times Good times make weak men And weak men make hard times.

There are places that have been great to live for multiple generations, and places that have been troubled for just as long, I don't think this model has much predictive power.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#338

Post by diputsmonro »

shadowgovt wrote: post #280
ravenstine wrote: post #111

Everything is not falling apart, though certain institutions may be falling apart. In America, there's definitely been a breakdown of belief in its own institutions. Far more people are skeptical of things like journalism and Silicon Valley; it really wasn't that long ago that the former was constantly salivating over the latter, but now it's more of an openly vulture-carrion relationship because that caters to publi…

One of the disadvantages to democracy that Thomas Paine actually highlighted in "Common Sense" is that when things are off the rails in a monarchy, the cause (and remedy) are obvious. In a democracy, far less so. When Americans elect bad leadership, they ultimately have nobody to blame but themselves, and that damages the public attitude; I suspect one of the reasons "stolen election" conspiracy theories are so popul…

>> the alternative is one must simply be skeptical of the good judgment of one's neighbors, and people don't want to live like that.

People love being skeptical of their neighbors' judgement, what they're afraid of is being skeptical of their own. They can't handle backing the wrong horse, so instead they declare that the system is wrong

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#339

Post by TimPC »

ItsMonkk wrote: post #315
TimPC wrote: post #211

I'd argue that the greater risk of things falling apart is economic rather than political. We've built our society on two near-ponzi schemes that are in danger of falling apart. The first is pension funds which are paid into by current workers to pay out for past workers. Pension funds inherently depend on population growth to avoid shortfalls. They rely on the fact that more people pay into them then take out from t…

If you make the assumption that PI is 3.14, that's going to work for a good while. But eventually you are going to need to build a circle that's bigger, and 3 significant digits will not cut it, and errors will start showing up. Our economies work in the exact same way. Capitalism started out improving on what came before it, but it has now grown to the level that errors are appearing more and more. We need to be mor…

I argued for a gradual implementation of Georgist Tax Policies elsewhere in the thread so we are in agreement. I think transitioning to a LVT is a very hard problem that requires a great deal of thought and care. I'm convinced such a transition needs to be gradual because instantaneous is far too destructive. I'm also leaning towards government needing to compensate at least some of those who lose significantly in the transition. I'm open to being proven wrong about either point but the proposals I've seen from Georgists advocating instantaneous change seem woefully ill informed or quite naive about consequences.

Re: Is everything falling apart?

#340

Post by rtkwe »

jimbob45 wrote: post #57
the_other wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get to the next stop?

You wait for the market to cycle again - crash, boom, then crash, etc. Parent poster might have been in their 20s/30s though and implying that waiting for the next cycle would waste prime years of their life.

That depends heavily on your job and savings not being decimated by the crash part of that cycle.
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