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An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

scottaaronson.blog

651–657 of 657 posts

Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arrogance is skimming a PhD thesis in a field wildly different from your own and deciding you are more competent in your ability to evaluate its "rigor" than the dozens or people in that field who evaluated it that had a different conclusion. What a flimsy and transparent effort to insulate non-rigorous fields from criticism. Ironically, one of the things I do for a living these days, as an attorney, is attack the…

Yes but what is your perspective on the study of individual personal behaviour and societies. Are you saying that all the "serious but not rigorous" fields that do so are A) all doing it wrong, and that you know a better way, B) That there is a better way and noone has tried, Or C) that it is impossible and we shouldn't bother trying. Because if it's A or B, you can see why someone would call you arrogant. And if it'…

(C). Human behavior and societies are generally not amenable to rigorous analysis, and therefore aren't the proper subject of academic fields that purport to generate truth value and produce expertise worthy of deference.

That is not to say we can't seek to understand these things. To the contrary, humans have myriad ways to understand and respond to these things, including religion, tradition, culture, convention, etc. Academic inquiry that has the veneer of rigor--through credentials, peer review, conferences, etc.--but isn't actually rigorous improperly displaces those other ways of knowing, and cedes social power to a narrow class of elites.

The education and socialization of children, for example, is one of the fundamental pillars of society. People around the world have their own ideas of how best to socialize their kids. Unless you can bring real science to the table--unless you can create reproducible results that speak for themselves--you shouldn't be so arrogant as to act like your work can substitute for those other ways of knowing.

Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#652
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whether you are born with a high IQ is purely random, and even worse IQ is heritable This sounds contradictory to me. Moreover, how does IQ differ in this respect from "capacity and willingness to do hard work"?

I mean they are completely different measures. They both contribute to success but can be tested independantly. Also assuming that "capacity and willingness to do hard work" is a personality trait, that is also largely random. So no matter which way you slice it, you gotta get lucky on either the intelligence or industriousness axes (or both) to be successful.

> you gotta get lucky on either the intelligence or industriousness axes (or both) to be successful.

Yes exactly my point! At some level, success can only possibly be seen as a product of chance.

Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#653
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Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#654
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Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#655
post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This begs the question that they do. Probably safe to assume that most don't. Just like it is safe to assume that most programmers aren't good at calculus. Or discrete math. Or proofs.

There is a move to get basic care into the hands of nurse practitioners and probably similarly most programmers shouldn't bother studying anything. If there is enough consumer demand to fill experience-based jobs then that's the market reality but it doesn't mean doctors who are meant to invent new cures don't need biochemistry or engineers who are meant to design new solutions don't need mathematics. Most programmer…

> Most programmers will never design new solutions and are objectively terrible at their job.

I don’t think you know anything about professional programming if you think that makes them “objectively terrible at their job”. Sometimes businesses just need a website.

Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a math PhD with dyscalcula, I'm very skeptical. I was nearly held back as a child because of poor arithmetic performance, and really only started to be above average when we started on algebra. Poor arithmetic isn't that uncommon among the mathematicians I know.

I love this. On a similar note, I have a friend who majored in math at Harvard. He once told me that he came into Harvard being arrogant because in high school he was always at the top of his class in math. He enrolls in his first college level math course thinking he's got this, but he soon realizes that "higher math", which is largely proof-based, is a completely different subject than what he learned in high schoo…

For me it was the opposite, i was a pretty average math student in high school and fell in love with proof based math in college. Proof based math requires much more creativity and thus is much for fun for me at-least, i wish i was taught proof based math in HS.

Re: An update on the campaign to defend serious math education in California

#657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they truly believe they are doing the right thing. The alternative would be awful, no?

I've sometimes wondered if these anti maths things, could partly be psyops by a foreign nation state that wants to long term damage STEM in the US. I really don't think it is. And if it was, it'd be only partly, since apparently lots of this is coming from people inside the US. But what if there're foreign state controlled FB groups that try to manipulate people in the US, spreading these anti maths ideas? I'd be sur…

It hugely is, and everyone in the most peaceful, free, and prosperous time is being 100x tricked, duped, and screwed out of realizing what they already have.
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