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Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

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Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#41

Post by bell-cot »

ceejayoz wrote: post #28
engineer_22 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water from the Great Lakes cannot leave the Great Lakes. The Great Lakes Compact prevents construction of any water withdrawal that will move water outside of the watershed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Compact

By act of Congress, not Constitutional amendment. It could be repealed in a matter of weeks if Congress saw fit.

Politically brighter Congressmen might see such a repeal not as a one-off special event, but instead as a precedent for further "inter-state resource raids". Some of which raids could target their own states.

So - support for that repeal might prove scarcer than you'd think, from just looking at a map of drought-plagued areas of the U.S.

Also - burning needs for water tend to be sudden & immediate things. Vs. designing, approving, funding, and building the infrastructure to actually move large quantities of water long distances is more of a "decade-plus time scale" thing.

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#43

Post by quxpar »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #25
mcphage wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Either by moving here That's one of the reasons I'm staying where I am. > trying to move it there Being that they straddle the US / Canadian border, it's legally much more difficult to mass pump water out of them. Probably the main reason it hasn't happened yet.

It's legally forbidden by treaty of all the states and provinces that border them. For now. There's also little reason for it. There's plenty of rich farmland here to grow on. Agriculture should move back to this region, and growing practices and crops adapt for the colder climate. Growing heavily irrigated crops in the desert or semi-arid regions has many advantages but makes little sense in a water constrained worl…

We live in an age of profit pollution. Any farm doing this would be bought out by soy/corn growers, because the latter will be more profitable than the former. The same pollution is why your mailbox is full of wasteful garbage and your telephone line is harassed by scam calls until you stop picking up.

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#44

Post by cmrdporcupine »

nemo44x wrote: post #32
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #16

Seas or not, I love the lakes and the land around them, in the 20+ years since I moved myself here they've taken over my heart. I'm from the aspen parkland of central Alberta; thin trees, dry air, small muddy leach-infested kettle lakes, big skies, poplar and birch land. When I was 8 we did a trip across Canada, and I remember us camping by the shores of Superior when a massive thunderstorm came rolling in, and it le…

I guess. I don’t miss them and always thought they were cold and smelly and didn’t make for great beaches. The weather around them is awful as well with long, bitter cold winters and summer days that are often extremely humid. You can’t really eat the fish out them either due to high levels of mercury. Additionally the land around the lakes is nice but not spectacular. At least not for North America. If I were to pla…

You just went to the wrong beaches. There's plenty of sand or pebble beaches with very clear water and little organic matter, especially along Huron where the water is alkaline. It's just cold.

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#45

Post by ianai »

ham-sandwich wrote: post #38
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By act of Congress, not Constitutional amendment. It could be repealed in a matter of weeks if Congress saw fit.

I know many people who would oppose removal of water from the region with weaponry. People deeply care about them, more than outsiders know

It’s not really worth it nor likely. Plenty of places in the US with excess water closer to the dry regions. Ie desalination in California makes more sense.

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#46

Post by sbradford26 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #16

Seas or not, I love the lakes and the land around them, in the 20+ years since I moved myself here they've taken over my heart. I'm from the aspen parkland of central Alberta; thin trees, dry air, small muddy leach-infested kettle lakes, big skies, poplar and birch land. When I was 8 we did a trip across Canada, and I remember us camping by the shores of Superior when a massive thunderstorm came rolling in, and it le…

I grew up in west Michigan probably about 40 minutes from Lake Michigan, but my favorite memory of the great lakes is similar to yours. While we were camping on Lake Superior a big storm rolled in, and I got to watch waves just roll right over a massive stone break water. The sheer power of that is certainly something to behold.

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#47

Post by technothrasher »

dncornholio wrote: post #9

I think to call it a sea it must be huge and salty. The arguments against this in the article is that Baltic sea is "pretty fresh", so it actually is salty. They also say the Dead sea is a lake, which is logical because it's tiny. If anyone can point to a sea that's not salty, I'd be happy to know. Until then, these are just lakes! Which is fine, because a sea is not better than a lake, and vice versa.

> If anyone can point to a sea that's not salty, I'd be happy to know. Until then, these are just lakes!

That feels a bit circular. If you define sea as having to contain saltwater, then how could anybody point you to a sea that isn't salty?

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#48

Post by sbradford26 »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #44
nemo44x wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess. I don’t miss them and always thought they were cold and smelly and didn’t make for great beaches. The weather around them is awful as well with long, bitter cold winters and summer days that are often extremely humid. You can’t really eat the fish out them either due to high levels of mercury. Additionally the land around the lakes is nice but not spectacular. At least not for North America. If I were to pla…

You just went to the wrong beaches. There's plenty of sand or pebble beaches with very clear water and little organic matter, especially along Huron where the water is alkaline. It's just cold.

I always felt that if you want big sandy beaches you go to Lake Michigan, somewhere like Grand Haven or Ludington.

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#49

Post by trylfthsk »

twelvechairs wrote: post #20
jameshart wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bosphorus and Dardanelles, between the Black Sea and the Aegean/Mediterranean, are quite a lot like a river. There are both shorter and wider bodies of water that are considered rivers.

They don't have a one way flow though

Neither do the Straits of Mackinac

Re: Are the Great Lakes really inland seas?

#50

Post by aurizon »

bell-cot wrote: post #41
ceejayoz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By act of Congress, not Constitutional amendment. It could be repealed in a matter of weeks if Congress saw fit.

Politically brighter Congressmen might see such a repeal not as a one-off special event, but instead as a precedent for further "inter-state resource raids". Some of which raids could target their own states. So - support for that repeal might prove scarcer than you'd think, from just looking at a map of drought-plagued areas of the U.S. Also - burning needs for water tend to be sudden & immediate things. Vs. designi…

The great lakes water is simply channelled to the Atlantic. It would take an engineering project to divert 10-20% to the west. No hard tasks, just the creation of a sloped canal. In desert areas you could cover it with solar cells - also land based ones, to provide the pump energy over hills/mountains etc. Tunnels can be drilled where mounts are high. This water added to the west would revive it from the death spiral it is now in,
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