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Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

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Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#371
post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

On the other hand, I just had a lengthy conversation with my dad on why he shouldn't drink chlorine dioxide, and that a Bitchute video from a guy who got a "doctor's of philosophy of medicine" from a diploma mill who had a patent application on drinking it to cure COVID, was selling books and lectures on his crockpotery, and had charges brought against him for two deaths resulting from drinking the thing might not be the best authority on the topic.

For people that are very good at research, self-advocacy and research is absolutely a night and day difference from just going in to the doctor for 15 minutes and being rushed through the system. If not for that in my own chronic health condition, I'd be on immune suppressants right now vs a much lighter treatment regimen in conjunction with generic/supplements supported in limited academic research abroad (the funding bias in research for patented vs generic/non-patentable treatments is its own topic).

But that's not the majority of people, and far too many think that they are capable of "doing their own research" when they aren't equipped to do so at all.

Particularly when it comes to medicine, that's a dangerous misconception, and Dunning-Kreuger is actively killing people who can't discern between snake oil and a meta-analysis.

So many of the people doctors are dealing with that are Googling ARE idiots who endanger themselves with their 'research.' Which sucks for the people who are actually good researchers and dealing with biases towards self-research.

Though in my experience, typically good doctors very quickly realize you're adequate at research and work with you as a treatment partner, and it's the people like my dad who will fight against actual research efforts in a quest for confirmation bias.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is caused by the AMA lobbying to limit the supply of doctors in order to drive up salaries. This. This is the problem - not the vague spectre of "capitalism" being waved around.

Since when do salaries have nothing to do with capitalism?

Since people refuse to see regulatory capture as an unavoidable feature of capitalism.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#373
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1/3 We do not have anything close to socialized medicine.

I don't understand what you mean, not being universal does not have any bearing on that. The care is paid out of taxes.

I am on Medicare. Because it is not universal means it is only partly socialized and still operating inside of a non-socialized system. Why does this matter? I cannot get any doctor I want, only the ones taking Medicare, which are fewer and fewer, because they would rather only take people on private insurance.

In France for example you can walk into any doctor and they will see you.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90-degree? Yeah, you should get those wisdom teeth out because general anesthesia at your advanced age would not be good for your longevity. That is, if your wisdom teeth were ever then to surface and rot.

General anesthesia? Here in Europe we don't do that. I had one wisdom tooth that got rotten and the injections did not help with the pain because of the infection, so the nurse held me down while the doctor pulled the tooth, me screaming in agony. Then they gave me a shot for the trauma so I would calm down. This is Northern Europe.

That's insane. Any practice here in middle Europe will give you Midazolam so you won't remember anything.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not hard to diagnose once you eventually get to a person that can diagnose it. You said it yourself. It is not about difficultly, but time spent with the patient. But I literally showed my doctor the cutaneous lupus in my ear and she said "Oh, some people just get gunk in their ears" and would not send me to a rheumatologist. The slow diagnosis is because the specialists are so reluctant to see people. Right no…

> Right now I am on a six month wait to see a rheumatologist. Why? Capitalism. Typically that's anti-capitalist: there are very strong government and regulatory limits on who can perform the services, and for self-serving reasons, they maintain shortages of supply. The free-market capitalist solution would be for prices to rise to a point where supply and demand are balanced, either by supply increasing (people switc…

> for prices to rise to a point where supply and demand are balanced

Is there a limit to the amount of money you would pay to save your life? Is there a predatry loan you wouldn't take to pay for life-saving surgery for your child?

Has this ever been demonstrated to work in healthcare in the real world, outside free-market fantasy land?

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought expert systems were supposed to replace diagnosis, like three decades ago.

In an April's fool story where Eliezer Yudkowsky was pretending to come from a rationalist parallel world (or outer planet), he suggested a medical system with a different way to specialize people. Most notably, he suggested we separate diagnosticians and prognosticators from practicians . The former do their best to guess what you have, send you to the right kind of practician, and estimate your possible outcomes (w…

This is a really neat Idea, i never heard of it before

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#378
post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

When a business personn asks me for a new feature I spend a couple hours discussing their requirements and customer needs. I make sure to ask the right questions and draw out corner cases they haven't thought of. The business person has a bit of training to put forwar their requirements correctly

A doctor might spend 5 minutes listening to your symptoms, you have no training on how to recall them correctly or bring up the right ones. Another 5 minutes might be spent discussing treatment. And you life might depend on this

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#379
post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

>I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to move the process forward. This has been my experience as well dealing with fatigue. I was 25 when I finally got diagnosed with sleep apnea, after over a decade of symptoms. How something so common could go unnoticed by the adults and professional doctors in my life astonishes me still today. Eventually, thanks to ego, I questioned the narrative that I was just normal and lazy. Wi…

> How something so common could go unnoticed by the adults and professional doctors in my life astonishes me still today.

A friend of mine was struggling with a weird disease, 7 years and 5 doctors later he finally found the cause -> vitamin D deficiency.

Re: Google almost convinced me to spend $400 on useless laser treatments

#380
post #127
post #40

“ Medicine has become a three-way negotiation between you, your doctor, and The Algorithm.” This characterization makes it sound like a good thing. In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient because they are overbooked in the name of economic efficiency. As a patient with complex, non-specific medical condition, I can tell you how miserable this is. I can’t count on doctors _at all_ to mov…

> In reality, the doctor’s responsibility is being pushed to the patient In reality, your choice is your responsibility. Even if one could delegate medical power of attorney to a health care provider, it would be unethical for them to hold a dual role. Chronic conditions that are not well characterized and addressed by medicine are awful and as you said are a combined burden: the condition in of itself and the effort…

> In reality, your choice is your responsibility.

How does that work if:

A) doctors frequently refuse to provide treatment or tests the patient is asking for

B) If the patient is unconscious, incapacitated, or otherwise unable to make a choice?

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