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College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

americandreaming.substack.com

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Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#71

Post by tomrod »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

A bit different, but your experience mirrors somewhat my experience

- Chose affordable option to my situation (private but religious school that I was then an adherent of)

- Graduate school after a few years working in industry; PhD so route was "paid for" with starvation wages. Had two kids during the process. Worked to supplement. Took loans but paid off w/in two years (interest rate stacking put that at the highest return).

- Success in industry came by hard work and by being genuine with colleagues and coworkers as to my capabilities, desires, etc.

I came from a poorer/low middle class background. College was a real improvement for my situation, and for others I've kept in touch with over the years from my hometown or similar situations.

Not all of us went into the highest middle class type roles, and some of us married into families with high assets or got lucky with astute business acumen. But those dice rolls aside, college was a qualitative net positive.

Graduation years were late 2000s undergrad, mid 2010s grad. So, not too far removed from the current experience.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#72

Post by mitchdoogle »

coldpie wrote: post #55
mitchdoogle wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One point of view arguing for a non-stem degree is that it teaches you to read, write and think This is where these critiques often go wrong in my opinion. There's no mention of what was learned, what value was gained over that time, because I highly doubt it was nothing. As you mention, there is an aspect of project management in making a film. You have to write a film, you have to select roles for your film, you…

The scam is in convincing (very young) people that they need to pay six figures to acquire those experiences.

Yes, I think that's the real problem. There is definitely value in college education, but the cost is way too high.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#73

Post by xhkkffbf »

brk wrote: post #17
beej71 wrote: post #8

I went to college in the early 90s when it was 5x cheaper, inflation -adjusted. It was the best decision of my life. No way I'd be where I am without it. But times and technology has changed. The antique system that is education needs to be completely upended. And, in the process, be made affordable again.

I dropped out of college in the early 90s when many of the CS programs were teaching dated material. It was the best decision of my life, no way I'd be where I am if I had waited to graduate before getting started into a career. IMO, college is one of many possible options to success. They all have trade offs, and there is no universal answer that fits all of the addressable market. If you do not go to college, you h…

Alas, the modern CS curriculum is still pretty dated. It's not that the courses are bad, they're just not that helpful. For instance, I like understanding how compilers work, but I'm never going to be on a compiler-building team. Nor will many of us because everyone just uses LLVM. But it's a big part of the curriculum. And the theory stuff is intriguing, but the modern machine doesn't behave like a Turing Machine and so the lessons are limited.

At my local top-50 CS school, the one useful course on things like React, Angular and Vue, was pretty much cancelled because the Chairman apparently didn't want to "turn the place into a trade school." They refused to even give the adjunct an office.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#74

Post by whywhywhywhy »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #14
beej71 wrote: post #8

I went to college in the early 90s when it was 5x cheaper, inflation -adjusted. It was the best decision of my life. No way I'd be where I am without it. But times and technology has changed. The antique system that is education needs to be completely upended. And, in the process, be made affordable again.

30 states provide some means of a free community college education (eligibility limits in some case, for all in others). Get the other 20 on board, nuke student loan debt, and no longer have the government guarantee future debt for loans (which will drive down college costs). The system will then provide more value at lower cost to system participants (although it will be a painful adjustment process for bloated inst…

> nuke student loan debt

Do people who paid theirs off, get their money back?

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#75

Post by omarhaneef »

TheKnack wrote: post #70
omarhaneef wrote: post #9

One point of view arguing for a non-stem degree is that it teaches you to read, write and think. And there is some logic to that thought. Even if you spend 4 years just learning about, say, Sociology, you have to read up on a debate, summarize the background, have an opinion, be challenged and so forth. And you are on your way to 10k hours. Now film school might have a component of that, or maybe it is teaching you h…

I have a STEM degree from a liberal arts university. Half of my courses were not part of my major requirements and many if not most were humanities type courses. I've always felt that combination has given me a big advantage over others who went got the same degree from traditional universities. STEM curriculum does not have to exclude "reading, writing, and thinking".

same. Not saying you cannot do both.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#76

Post by asabjorn »

shortstuffsushi wrote: post #16

I'll offer one anecdote of counter-college hate. I went to a local state school, graduated in three years with winter and summer classes, commuted for the second and third, worked the whole time, and came out with a very small amount of debt (maybe 5-10k, been a while now and I don't remember). I made friends in college, I was able to get into a great job via an internship that I got from the school job fair, and got…

The key difference here is that he went to film school while you did computer science.

The author says that for STEM college often seems of value, but for students without the skill or aptitude to pursue high-skill degrees that exit into a pool of job opportunities it is awash.

If you are not already wealthy spending large sums of debt on a degree that won’t get you paid more is objectively luxury spending at the negative cost of your future self. How many degrees increase income earning potential?

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#77

Post by nineplay »

This is a popular gripe during the current political discussions about college debt but I think it drastically undersells the benefits of college degrees that are non-STEM and drastically overestimates the quality of life for people who get trade certifications.

You'd think with the popularity of 'antiwork' attitudes, people would notice that few people are inherently motivated to snake out clogged toilets. It's not for everyone.

Look though the HR depts. of FAANGs and you'll find a lot of people with humanities degrees who are making good incomes. It's not the dead end field that's often suggested.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#78

Post by SantalBlush »

beej71 wrote: post #8

I went to college in the early 90s when it was 5x cheaper, inflation -adjusted. It was the best decision of my life. No way I'd be where I am without it. But times and technology has changed. The antique system that is education needs to be completely upended. And, in the process, be made affordable again.

>education needs to be completely upended

The idea that we should pay out of pocket for our own training before even knowing we'll break into a field is pretty absurd, if one takes a moment to think about it.

Sure, that's the traditional approach for a few highly specialized fields, but by and large it's obviously going to cause a huge misallocation of resources, along with enormous debt.

Re: College Was the Biggest Mistake of My Life

#80

Post by mrtranscendence »

> The truth is, college isn’t for everyone. It’s a virtual requirement for fields like STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics), medicine, academia, and law.

I mean, it's a virtual requirement for more than that. If you want to work a white collar job of almost any type it's much harder if you don't have some kind of college degree. It may only barely be possible unless you're particularly skilled at something or good at finding and chasing opportunities. Accountants, social workers, therapists, teachers, middle managers, HR people, supply chain specialists, city planners ... low and high paid positions of all types ostensibly require a college degree in many cases. I'm sure there are people without degrees doing some of these things, but it's more of an uphill battle.

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