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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#951

Post by goodpoint »

dasudasu wrote: post #604
nottorp wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans in general have no idea how "humble" life can be for the European lower classes. Don't think said lower classes live in fear of a "major health event".

My understanding is that the poorest people are covered by medicare or get their fees waved (hospitals won't refuse to treat someone needing critical care). That is not "zero social net". Nobody is in fact jealous of the American healthcare system though. Meanwhile, in most countries in Europe, people live in fear of having to be put on wait lists that extend from months to years, or just plain being unable to access…

> in most countries in Europe, people live in fear of having to be put on wait lists that extend from months to years

Absolutely false. Most people don't understand that the wait depends on priority. If you need urgent care you get urgent care.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#952

Post by Ensorceled »

nitrogen wrote: post #478
UncleMeat wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The law could be described as “baring presentations about sex (straight or otherwise) to a classroom of 5-8 year olds” One of the authors of the bill was asked if a math textbook that had a word problem saying "Jimmy and his dads go to the store..." would be in violation of this law. He responded that this was precisely the sort of thing the law was intending to prevent. The law is very much not just about direct s…

Such subversively worded math problems should be avoided, no matter who the named parties are. "Jimmy, Jack, and John go to the store..." would be just as effective of a setup for a story problem without sneaking in moral displays.

>> "Jimmy and his dads go to the store..."

> Such subversively worded math problems should be avoided, no matter who the named parties are.

Thinking that phrase is "subversive" is a hard right stance. Classifying it as "sex" talk seems like a literal mental illness.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#953

Post by goodpoint »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #245
d4mi3n wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a bad thing? The US was founded by immigrants. Immigration, diversity, and the US’ history with these topics (good and bad) is huge part of the national cultural identity. As a US citizen, I think as long as we can maintain the cornerstones of our national heritage (democratic traditions, constitutional freedoms, etc) it should be fine if things change to reflect the demographics of our population.

Immigration has a large history in the US, yes, but historically immigrants were encouraged (through social pressures) to assimilate part of their identity. Is that pressure for partial assimilation still there? Or do we encourage diversity so much now that anything goes?

> Or do we encourage diversity so much now that anything goes?

If anything it's the opposite. The US exports so much of its mainstream culture through movies, music, social networks and videogames that it's extremely difficult to find societies that are not heavily influenced by it.

In terms of culture, "globalization" meant "americanization" especially in the last 30 years.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#954

Post by Ensorceled »

sanderjd wrote: post #598
Ensorceled wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. As an outside observer, I'm Canadian, this viewpoint of many Americans that their politics has shifted "left" is flabbergasting. The SC has definitely shifted hard right and Roe v. Wade is essentially overturned, or being, overturned in many states. "Don't say gay" and other anti LGBQT+ laws are being passed. I feel you are using a very "tru…

The culture has shifted fairly significantly left while a backlash to that, in conjunction with a bunch of weird details about our system of government and just the random timing of elderly people passing away, has shifted political power significantly to the right.

Agreed, the Americans I routinely encounter are not that different from Canadians but US politics is off the charts to the right at the moment.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#955

Post by usrn »

Ensorceled wrote: post #249
lettergram wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America so thoroughly that the head of the “conservative” party is a three-times-divorced man of little character. I think that’s an interesting point. The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. The fact is he’s not the head of the conservative moment, he’s the head of the Republican Party. There are differing factions and he promised something most in the party could support. For ex…

> The political window has shifted further and further left in recent years. As an outside observer, I'm Canadian, this viewpoint of many Americans that their politics has shifted "left" is flabbergasting. The SC has definitely shifted hard right and Roe v. Wade is essentially overturned, or being, overturned in many states. "Don't say gay" and other anti LGBQT+ laws are being passed. I feel you are using a very "tru…

Canadian politics are extremely different from American politics so even though other aspects of our culture are shared you have to pay much closer attention to understand what's going on over the border. (This goes both ways, it took me years to understand how on earth your current PM could get elected.)

One other issue is that both sides will focus on what's happening in individual states and act like the whole country is behaving that way. What's really happening is that people are taking mutually exclusive extreme positions and it's influencing the state laws. This is by design and allows people who disagree to live in harmony.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#956

Post by raxxorraxor »

libraryatnight wrote: post #883
zmgsabst wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you’re calling it “irrational” to give yourself an excuse to engage in bad faith — such as using demeaning language towards a large group of people. That gives you an “out” from having to understand something that might conflict with a belief you hold or make you uncomfortable.

Or maybe it's just irrational. Not saying the feelings expressed here don't point to a very real issue, but there's no chance in any meaningful engagement with the vast majority of the comments in this thread. You have a bunch of scared men making emotional arguments that somehow their entire self worth and sense of direction relies on society demanding something of them. The something in most cases being rooted in n…

> a very real issue

Please explain. You have suggested that some men have a male identity crisis. How does that express?

Currently it sounds like you have a problem with some answers more than the common answer of this thread has with the world.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#957

Post by burntoutfire »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #682
DeathArrow wrote: post #205

>Norms were loosened around being an absentee father. So more men took the option. I'm afraid that the author got it wrong. All social norms were destroyed between 1950's and now. If society desires hard working, law abiding, family loving young men, it should rebuild what it destroyed. The only interesting point in the story was about that "expert" which publicly behaves how society coerces her now to behave but sec…

Religion destroyed plenty of people and continues to right now. In the 19-20th centuries of the USA it wasn't such a pleasant life for non-WASP or women.

Pre-modern life was a meat grinder of poverty and back-breaking work for everyone except a small privileged elite. Sex or skill color could make things better or worse for you, but in general everyone was screwed anyway.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#958

Post by raxxorraxor »

MisterBastahrd wrote: post #515

> This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. Well, like most forms of discrimination, THAT'S THE POINT. These people aren't blindly going through life, discriminating without a cause. They know damned good and well what they're actually doing and will use the c…

Not really, there were quite some people that suggested that in elite circles the classical relationships still dominate. Not applicable to media stars or hollywood but pretty much the high society beyond that. They were completely honest about it too. There are other elements that advertise patchwork families, as if that wouldn't be a huge compromise not only for the parents, but for the children too.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#959

Post by burntoutfire »

mkl95 wrote: post #289

In my relatively wealthy EU country there are two types of non upper class young men: those who are set to receive a relatively large inheritance and those who don't. People in the second group have to work much harder than those in the first group to achieve well-being, even if they are professionally successful. People in the first group can afford to underachieve, since they will progressively become richer than t…

I've always wondered about the inheritance argument. People tend to live a long time now, so that inheritance may come in your sixties or even seventies. The money will provide security in old age, but does not affect the decades when the parents are still alive (apart from the fact that you can make less, because you don't have to save for the old age).

BTW I wonder if financial sector will start offering loans against expected inheritance. They would solve this problem.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#960

Post by raxxorraxor »

xpe wrote: post #163

Does the author self-declare their philosophical and political beliefs? In my view, doing so is necessary for an author to be intellectually honest and open. Generally speaking, I'm not looking for an author to 'sneak in' a belief by way of a good narrative. I've read similar commentary by a socially conservative author writing under a pen name (Theodore Dalyrimple) [1]. He wrote a highly selective account that match…

Putting authors into a box is the opposite of any intellectual or philosophical approach. Why would you even believe that? That would intentionally numb your understanding of any statement. If you need that box to evaluate those, intellectual approaches might not be too suitable.
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