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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

731–740 of 1001 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#731
post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence is that married couples are more stable than unmarried couples.

Maybe you could share this evidence instead of sharing an anonymous assertion

They basically said stable relationships are more stable than unstable relationships and you want evidence?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet, you’ve taken this as a chance to demean an entire thread rather than engage in good faith and explore that difference of opinion. Do you think that kind of reflexive insulting dismissal is… …a healthy response? …a positive contribution? …a symptom of what they’re trying to explain?

That's the trouble, they don't know what they're trying to explain. This thread is a reverberation chamber for irrational masculine fear. A bunch of people trying to pinpoint something that may not even exist, and choosing to look backward for familiarity. You can't engage with that. Not online. Sometimes the healthy response is "This shit is nuts, I'm going to go talk to people in person and touch some grass."

I think you’re calling it “irrational” to give yourself an excuse to engage in bad faith — such as using demeaning language towards a large group of people.

That gives you an “out” from having to understand something that might conflict with a belief you hold or make you uncomfortable.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#733
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is likely fine because our southern border is porous and anyone can walk right in. I don’t see any indication that this will change. The benefit is even if the US birth rate is declining, we have an influx of younger individuals who can help keep the economy going.

Just walking in doesn’t make you part of the economy as you imply. I can’t reject or support your claim of the border because I haven’t seen it myself and if I google it I’m sure I’ll find hits for either side, but I can tell you that being an illegal immigrant does not help either side. They can’t get a normal job with a W2, so if they pay taxes (which many do because they are more afraid of the IRS than homeland se…

what about the innumerable businesses built on cheap labor?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women control the social capital and function as norm setters in our society. Fixing men won’t help if women and the prevailing culture remain broken. All the divorces I’ve witnessed, nearly every married childhood friend of mine has been the victim of unwanted divorce - in every instance initiated by women who simply wanted a younger, richer, more x partner. All were heavily endorsed by the surrounding social groups…

Since it seems like you have a pretty good sample size, I am curious whether you have noticed a difference or pattern in upbringing among the current and/or former wives of your childhood friends.

Sure. Children of divorced parents are more likely to opt for divorce themselves, based on my sample. That is consistent with everything we know and expect about humans. Whether and how these apparently heritable differences are due to nature vs nurture is to me the more interesting question. Many in the lower class have imperfections that seem plausibly linked to biology rather than culture, like fundamental biological differences in capacity for impulse control, cognitive deficits whether congenital or epigenetic in origin, etc If someone is abusive due to lead exposure for instance, maybe them divorcing their partner capriciously, as a result of poor impulse control, may in fact be the best outcome for everyone. But what if these biological factors can be ameliorated through culture, say through meditation or more traditional means, then problems of nature can be addressed through culture, and perhaps there alone. That’s a line of thought that might fructify other progressive efforts to improve our culture, should the progressivists pursue it.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#735

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in, "In the past young men could look to the example of their fathers, who had well-paid automotive manufacturing / steel mill / electronics assembly jobs that allowed them to care for their families and even put a downpayment on a small home, but now they have no such examples and no such expectations of moving into that kind of position at adulthood." Okay, that's an expectation issue. Why is the author ignoring…

From what I've seen, there's an entire industry of conservative economists Like Arthur Laffer and Larry Kudlow (to name a mere two, there are entire billionaire funded thinktanks like AEI dedicated to this) to deny the reality of the issues you mention, not unlike scientists paid to deny Climate Change or Tobacco's cancer links. And because of this, conservatives don't even believe that such issues exist.

whats the solution? people in poor countries will work 60-70 hrs a week for a fraction of the pay

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#736
post #547
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shit article where the author lightly blames what one would generally call "elites" for the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites and who make it a point of hating everything the "elites" like anyways.

"the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites" I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". And I for one will not complain if someone hates a person who holds your classist views. And what do you mean by "elite" anyways? If people dislike those in the position of authority, especially politicians, they generally have very good reasons for that. To quote…

I haven't encountered these individuals either, but they certainly exist. Class barriers are often considered in the abstract, but when it comes to physical manifestations of these differences, it can be raw and visceral. One photograph that stuck with me was the "eat the rich" [0] spray painted in Beverly Hills park during the early Covid protests.

[0]: https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/15/16/29633080-8422685-...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#737
post #122
post #44

Do people find this stuff compelling? Rank speculation and confident assertion with minimal substantive backing? I’d find this statement equally compelling (which is to say, not at all): > Since we stopped using horses as a primary means of transportation, men’s sense of self worth has diminished. Riding a horse carried a lot of high status connotations: drive, masculinity, towering above the land, and man’s dominati…

It's a shit article where the author lightly blames what one would generally call "elites" for the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites and who make it a point of hating everything the "elites" like anyways.

There’s a growing trend of blaming the lower upper-class for societal issues. Whether it’s due to their excess quantity or their moral licentiousness. Yup it’s definitely them and not the people who control the levers of power

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny part about expectations is they don't have to match reality to have an impact. If you raise a child telling them they have no opportunity, their chance of success is quite low.

That may work for a single generation. And the child soon grows up and meets reality. We are in a situation that has been developing for multiple generations Edit: I agree with the replies and I’m not one for shirking personal responsibility to change your lot in life, nor not instilling an eye for opportunity in children. We are at a point where more may be necessary

Of course we can do more to have a robust economic ladder, but I dont think it is nearly as bleak and binary as people make it out to be. If you look at the actual data, there is still a lot up upward mobility. 60% of people who grow up in the bottom economic quintile improve their situation. [1] When thinking about the 40% that dont, there are a few notable facts:

20% of children in the bottom quintile dont graduate highschool.[2]

8% of men born into the bottom quintile are currently incarcerated.[3]

The traditional advice to children for how to be in the 60% that escape poverty is still true. Stay in highschool, stay away from drugs and crime, and go to college if possible. If poor children can do this, their chances of improving are actually quite good and not at all hopeless.

https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/~/media/images/...

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/High-school-graduation-r...

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/es_2018...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#739
post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure r/childfree has lots of this sort. They often seem a bit too into being childfree to me, I probably wouldn't like their shitty kids anyway. There's an opportunity cost for most life decisions. Sometimes they're obscured. It's often not presented this way but for a cohort of women university and work, displaces marriage and children.

College-educated women are more likely to marry. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2016/08...

And yet they don’t date down, so they can’t find partners (as there is not an equal amount of educated, high earning, high status males).

https://theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/10/dating-gap-...

https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-gender-gap-in-marriages-betwe...

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/04/01/business/college-gend...

(“College educated gender gap” are the search keywords for more info on the topic)

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#740
post #44

Do people find this stuff compelling? Rank speculation and confident assertion with minimal substantive backing? I’d find this statement equally compelling (which is to say, not at all): > Since we stopped using horses as a primary means of transportation, men’s sense of self worth has diminished. Riding a horse carried a lot of high status connotations: drive, masculinity, towering above the land, and man’s dominati…

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