Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

931–940 of 1001 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#931

Post by foogazi »

nikanj wrote: post #57
blinkingled wrote: post #48

> basic general principle that men will do whatever is required in order to obtain sex, and perhaps not a great deal more. (One of us characterized this in a previous work as, ‘If women would stop sleeping with jerks, men would stop being jerks.’) This makes it sound like it is just men who need sex and have to do things to get it. One would think that everybody needs sex and thus women need it too. And it would stan…

But do women have to do things to get sex? Not high-quality, eligible-bachelor sex, but just sex in general?

They just spread their legs right ? /s

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#932

Post by raxxorraxor »

playpause wrote: post #470
franciscop wrote: post #5

This has been a really good read! Thanks for sharing, the only place where I had a strong disagreement was this, which could definitely be based on cultural differences: > The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and customs—ensure that their children are raised in stable homes. But actively undermine the norm for everyone else. I am not from the USA but I don't beli…

My feeling is that the 'undermining' the author refers to is not a conscious attempt to keep the lower classes down. It's just middle/upper class people spouting fashionable political views, going along with the 'right message', and not really thinking about it. When it comes to their own personal behavioural decisions that will affect their kids, they take it more seriously, basing their decisions on their deep-down…

It is also often of form of courtesy. You don't want to burden single parents further by elaborating how damaging this can be for their kids, especially if you have them in your audience and it makes it even worse if they take it to heart. So in that situation being polite and being honest collide like in many situations. There are some true believers, but they are far more rare.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#933

Post by kortilla »

ALittleLight wrote: post #901
marcusverus wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's This belief is oddly common, considering it has no basis in reality. The share of adults living in households with sub-middle-class incomes has only grown by 4% since 1971.[0] The share of adults living in upper-class households grew by more (5%)! And this even as the number of single-adult households has soared[1], reducing the aver…

The portion of double income households more than doubled between 1960 and today[1]. The middle class is working more because they want to, or because they need to? Purchasing power for the average worker is flat[2]. In some sense, it's like the middle class has been working for fifty years without a raise, only now two people in the household need to work. That fewer people are getting married or having kids is like…

> Purchasing power for the average worker is flat[2]. In some sense, it's like the middle class has been working for fifty years without a raise, only now two people in the household need to work

That “flat” wage is accounting for inflation according to your own link. So not only would a single earner be doing just as good today as back then, adding a second income means they are raking in twice the spending power as back then.

The only thing that has changed are expectations. People want way bigger houses, nicer cars, computers, smart phones, more meat, dental care, better medical care, etc. Worst of all (from a financial perspective), they want both of their average kids to spend 4 years at an expensive university.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#934

Post by dandellion »

supersync wrote: post #835
jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

Well said. The glaring piece missing from this analysis is the psychology of the young men themselves. Raising two young men myself, I’m blown away by how powerful cultivating intrinsic motivation is. My eldest just went from constant gaming/sleeping/hiding in his room to working a full-time job, launching a side hustle, and enrolling in classes. Yes, my modeling & encouragement mattered. But the fulcrum was him acce…

While you juxtapose gaming/hiding in your room and working/classes they're not mutually exclusive. I work a full-time job, take classes, have a sidle hustle, never leave my room, play way too many video games and sleep in almost every day.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#935

Post by arvinsim »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #226
AvocadoPanic wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We rearranged our life from DINK to SIWK for this reason. If I'm paying for childcare the expenses often increase linearly with the number of children, with my wife caring for our children we were able to double the number of children while substantially reducing costs. We are no longer jetting to Alps for skiing, and we've not had a night out without the kids in 9 years but we've different priorities now.

I think this is a reasonable course of action, of course, but also respect the DINKs who look at having kids and go “no thanks” and continue jetting off to the Alps, Turks and Caicos, or whatever. Having kids is an opportunity cost, and there’s a lot of life enjoyment to be had if you don’t have them. Kids were previously an asset a century ago, now they’re a luxury good.

> Kids were previously an asset a century ago, now they’re a luxury good.

This might apply to individuals but not to nations or society as a whole.

Pensions, healthcare, capitalism, etc are so dependent on new people being born. I would assume that's why the ticking demographic bomb is so worrying for governments with declining birthrates.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#936

Post by dash2 »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #698
dash2 wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence is that married couples are more stable than unmarried couples.

Maybe you could share this evidence instead of sharing an anonymous assertion

Sure. I'll also show you how, so you could do this yourself in future.

I googled "stability of cohabiting couples". This led me to Wikipedia [1]. From there I hit the 2002 CDC report "Cohabitation, Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage in the United States" [2]. That provides the following statistic:

"The probability of a first marriage ending in separation or divorce within 5 years is 20 percent, but the probability of a premarital cohabitation breaking up within 5 years is 49 percent. After 10 years, the probability of a first marriage ending is 33 percent, compared with 62 percent for cohabitations."

I wondered if that had changed since 2002, so I hit Google Scholar and searched for articles after 2010. A 2020 article discussed cohabitation broadly. I scrolled down and found a 2018 article [3]. (There's an ungated PDF elsewhere if you need it.) They look at 8 countries including the US. Their findings: "cohabiting couples who do not subsequently transition to marriage... consistently have the highest predicted probabilities of separation within 5 years." Some of the gaps between cohabiting and married couples disappear if you control for (e.g.) education and other demographics.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohabitation#Likelihood_of_spl... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/02news/div_mar_cohab.htm [3] https://read.dukeupress.edu/demography/article/55/4/1389/167...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#937

Post by burntoutfire »

_se wrote: post #207
paconbork wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden and Norway have more billionaires per capita than the US does.

True, but I'm not sure that per capita matters so much. The USA has only about 5% of the world's people, but nearly 30% of the world's billionaires. That's a very large share (and nearly 1.5x as large as the next largest, China, with around 3x the population).

> The USA has only about 5% of the world's people, but nearly 30% of the world's billionaires

Seeing that the US is nearly a quarter of the global economy, nearly 30% of world's billionaires does not sound unreasonable.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#938

Post by DeathArrow »

giantg2 wrote: post #430
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it actually means redefining success. Today, success means having disposable income, but that's not the success that children need. They need stable households, and that can be obtained even with low paying jobs, though obviously it's easier with high paying jobs. But it's impossible if the will to work isn't there, and the only way to get that will is to instill a good work ethic and proper, family-oriented…

If both parents are spending all their time at work just to make ends meet (or workaholic executives), how can that be stable? When will they have time to guide and develop the child?

In a dystopic society, women would use sperm banks to get pregnant and then give the children to be raised by the state, "in the spirit of a liberal society". Rules will tell how many girls are needed and how many boys are needed. Rules will also avoid overpopulation in order to reduce pollution and protect the nature.

Meanwhile men will work full time in order to maintain such a noble society. Being a man and not working would be a crime.

Leaders would be appointed only amongst females because men are oppressive and violent.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#939

Post by goodpoint »

metadat wrote: post #828
convolvatron wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i can certainly think of cases where the children and one parent are really much better off without the second

Yes it happens, but isn't the rule. On average, it's ideal to have two happy, loving parents. But only on average!

Thinking in terms of averages and correlations should not justify absurd oversimplifications.

The average human being has 1.99 eyes.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#940

Post by DeathArrow »

giantg2 wrote: post #401
lolinder wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But people also just give up if they're constantly told that all the opportunities are gone, whether or not it's true. If you combine "there are no opportunities for me" with "there are no expectations for me", you get "I'll do nothing".

Even if you have expectations, many opportunities may be gone. Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. Now try to get one of those jobs if you're competing against others who have no criminal history if you have a minor one. I have a job as a dev and even I'm tired of this treadmill. Taxes, COL, healthcare, etc. No time/money to do the things I want. No real career, just a job. Li…

I live in a poor country than US and skilled car mechanics, skilled construction workers and skilled nurses are able to make a decent living. Some even better than people with an University degree.

Maybe you mean both non-college work and non-skilled work?

Post reply on HN