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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#851

Post by ensan »

cercatrova wrote: post #703
ensan wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the stupidity and moral ineptitude of lower-class people who avowedly hate elites" I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". And I for one will not complain if someone hates a person who holds your classist views. And what do you mean by "elite" anyways? If people dislike those in the position of authority, especially politicians, they generally have very good reasons for that. To quote…

> I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". Go on reddit, the refrains of "eat the rich" are quite common. People there hate the rich and the elite. That being said, poor people are not "stupid" or have "moral ineptitude." They're just poor , something that those who have never been poor will not understand. It's a victim blaming mentality.

"Go on reddit, the refrains of "eat the rich" are quite common. People there hate the rich and the elite."

Well, an argument is lost if it starts by referring to the people who post on reddit.

But do people really hate an expert contractor who is rich but does an excellent job of repairing their house? Do they hate a prominent surgeon or medical professional? Are they against being represented by an elite law firm? People hate John Carmack because he is a rich and prominent graphics programmer?

My point is that what some perceive as a hatred of the rich and/or elite in general is not that at all. Instead, it is anger towards a subset of the elite and as I said there are other underlying reasons for that.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#852

Post by hackerfromthefu »

imtringued wrote: post #767
paulryanrogers wrote: post #436

I doubt the upper class consciously tries to keep the lower classes stuck in poverty. There are so many factors here the article doesn't touch on. Such as men's biological desire to maximize sexual partners, women's biological desire to maximize quality of and support for offspring, and cultural variation of expectations among all classes. In my circle most of us were raised by parents in unhappy marriages. (Often fo…

> I doubt the upper class consciously tries to keep the lower classes stuck in poverty. When I look at single family zoning I don't believe what you said one bit. A lot of people think it is their right to keep people out of locations where "all the jobs" are. The fact that jobs concentrate in the bay area is just as much part of urban planning as preventing people from moving there. If people truly wanted to stop pe…

From the perspective of people living there its probably more about keeping trouble away from them and their families, than keeping other people in poverty.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#853

Post by akomtu »

tristor wrote: post #784
127 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have been riding four positive tidal waves in the west: (momentary) end of war, positive population pyramid, rapidly improving technology, extremely cheap resources. Now that all of those trends are reversing or at least stagnating, we are in for a really rough landing, as our values and systems have eroded as a consequence of those easy times.

“Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

Never seen this saying, but it accurately describes the 4 ugas, or periods, in 4:3:2:1 proportion, in Indian occultism. Golden age where strong and good souls rule, they create prosperity. Silver age where good and weak ride the wave and maintain the traditions. Bronze age where bad and weak start abusing the system for personal profit. Iron age, the era of dark cults, where strong and evil rule freely. We are in a small bronze age right now.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#854

Post by refurb »

crmd wrote: post #464
refurb wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For point #2, we can follow the idea to its logical conclusion. (Note: I have zero issues with gay parents, this is just a thought exercise) If it stands to reason that if the children of lesbian parents are indistinguishable from those of mixed-sex parents, then men play no particular role in the upbringing of children, no? They can be swapped out by a woman with no change for the child. And conversely if a child ra…

Children raised in a non-dysfunctional two parent household (regardless of parental gender / sexual orientation) witness healthy interdependence, cooperation, negotiation, trust, respect, conflict resolution, love etc. between their primary caregivers during their critical development period. Raising a child with a good partner is about more than resource availability.

So you agree males add nothing of value to a two adult parental unit?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#855

Post by cercatrova »

ensan wrote: post #851
cercatrova wrote: post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have never encountered an individual who claims to hate the "elite". Go on reddit, the refrains of "eat the rich" are quite common. People there hate the rich and the elite. That being said, poor people are not "stupid" or have "moral ineptitude." They're just poor , something that those who have never been poor will not understand. It's a victim blaming mentality.

"Go on reddit, the refrains of "eat the rich" are quite common. People there hate the rich and the elite." Well, an argument is lost if it starts by referring to the people who post on reddit. But do people really hate an expert contractor who is rich but does an excellent job of repairing their house? Do they hate a prominent surgeon or medical professional? Are they against being represented by an elite law firm? P…

There are rich people on reddit too, such as those on /r/fatFIRE.

> But do people really hate an expert contractor who is rich but does an excellent job of repairing their house? Do they hate a prominent surgeon or medical professional? Are they against being represented by an elite law firm? People hate John Carmack because he is a rich and prominent graphics programmer?

Those people are not what one would consider rich and elite. It is more meant for people who are in the billions of dollars of net worth territory, at least as I understand it.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#856

Post by codethief »

dasudasu wrote: post #293
nottorp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US thinkers have no idea what a social safety net is so they draw their conclusions without taking that option into account.

To think that the US has no social safety is also a common trope. Food stamps, medicaid, public & section 8 housing, SSDI, EI, etc. in combination with the unique opportunities allowed by American society to get back on your feet (low unemployment and barrier to entry). Americans in general have no idea how "humble" life can be for the European lower classes. Fun fact: Canada and the US have about the same homelessne…

> Fun fact: Canada and the US have about the same homelessness rates on a per capita basis.

Could you provide a source for that?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#857

Post by hackerfromthefu »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #566
VLM wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bed…

Speaking of innumeracy, how would a person afford to save for a homeloan deposit, while also paying for health insurance, rent, food, and vehicle maintenance. With kids? Might as well hang yourself, before the kids hang themselves. I'm in Australia, so the numbers are approximately similar, our minimum wage is $20.33 an hour, our public health care system had been eroded by successive governments, and never included…

What you're saying surely has elements of truth, in average the struggle is real and it's hard.

But it's also a matter of perspective. Here's a few additional perspectives, none of them the whole answer. But possibly provide insights and even hope for those who are most motivated.

Creating a house is a huge achievement, if you had to build it, and it's components, yourself, you would spend decades building a modern style house. It's unrealistic to expect that everyone can get this easily and early in life. Our mortgage system allows people to own earlier while paying it off to make that possible, but otherwise this is something that only a skilled person after decades of work would achieve.

Minimum wage isn't expected to be the maximum income achievement for someone who works hard, the idea is to find a niche where you can make more than minimum wage. This takes time of hard work, but it's patently still very possible in Australia, and much harder in many other countries overseas.

People who bought houses in the past had it easier in some ways, but lived a much much more basic standard of life. If you talk to average (ie not wealthy) people who bought houses from 50 to 20 years ago, it was incredibly hard for them, and involved sacrifice of pretty much everything to the mortgage for a decade of their life, while working hard and supporting a family. No overseas holidays, computers phones and entertainment, paying for kids sports programs, home delivery of meals etc etc. The standard of entitlement has raised incredibly decade on decade - in the past it was Expected to sacrifice to afford a home.

Some people still, despite the challenges were buying homes on minimum wage jobs in the last decade, before the current waves of price rises, and some probably are still buying now. But those people who did structured their life in a way to reduce every expense and save then buy modest places, away from conveniences and lifestyle areas. Similar sorts of sacrifices that people of the past would have done, just they are living in an era of inflated lifestyle expectations so they socially making more sacrifices even if the actual physical sacrifices are less in that they e.g. still have a phone and more entertainment than the past.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#858

Post by hackerfromthefu »

fartcannon wrote: post #572
influx wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Just try and find a plumber, carpenter or contractor that isn’t backlogged for months. There’s a ton of really good blue collar jobs, often where you are your own boss. Unfortunately, society is pushing everyone to college.

It's possible that most people just dont want to be plumbers, right? Maybe they would like a chance to do something they think is more interesting. To suggest people just do the thing that makes them money highlights another problem if you ask me.

I think this speaks to the heart of the matter, the expectations that people want.

Yes it's beyond possible, it's clear that's the case, otherwise there wouldn't be a shortage of plumbers given they can make money to live or even raise a family on.

But the sense of expectation has grown way beyond that, everyone wants to be an actor so they spend their time on tiktok, which is a winners market, and then the leftover masses that didn't build skills or work ethic complain about having to start at the bottom of the more 'realworld' pathways available.

For most of human history people just did what made them money to live, and were glad if they have the chance to do just that. Go and spend six months in a third world country and you will see this is true.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#859

Post by redmen »

Strom wrote: post #773
redmen wrote: post #731

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They basically said stable relationships are more stable than unstable relationships and you want evidence?

Stable relationships are possible without marriage. Some people view these as synonyms and others see that as a clear mistake.

Oh sorry I read their comment incorrectly

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#860

Post by hackerfromthefu »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #611
influx wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Just try and find a plumber, carpenter or contractor that isn’t backlogged for months. There’s a ton of really good blue collar jobs, often where you are your own boss. Unfortunately, society is pushing everyone to college.

Sort of. Many trades here in Australia spent two decades employing apprentices in insufficient numbers, for whatever reasons, to meet projected requirements. Now we have insufficient tradespeople to meet demand, blowing out wait times to things like "not gonna happen this year mate" to repair a roof, and 7 months to fabricate new windows. The builders, roofers, and glaziers that do exist would prefer to work on green…

You're right.

At the same time the common alternatives of computer games and tiktok aren't going to build much of a future.

Then for those that are motivated or smart there's plenty of other pathways in Australia today.

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