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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

611–620 of 1001 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#611
post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you have expectations, many opportunities may be gone. Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. Now try to get one of those jobs if you're competing against others who have no criminal history if you have a minor one. I have a job as a dev and even I'm tired of this treadmill. Taxes, COL, healthcare, etc. No time/money to do the things I want. No real career, just a job. Li…

What are you talking about? Just try and find a plumber, carpenter or contractor that isn’t backlogged for months. There’s a ton of really good blue collar jobs, often where you are your own boss. Unfortunately, society is pushing everyone to college.

Sort of.

Many trades here in Australia spent two decades employing apprentices in insufficient numbers, for whatever reasons, to meet projected requirements.

Now we have insufficient tradespeople to meet demand, blowing out wait times to things like "not gonna happen this year mate" to repair a roof, and 7 months to fabricate new windows. The builders, roofers, and glaziers that do exist would prefer to work on green fields developments where they can do the same thing 50 times without moving their tools and equipment further than next door, so prices on minor repairs to existing houses have increased by a factor of "don't want the work, multiple the cost by five and quote at that" and that capacity is being eaten up by people borrowing $700,000 to fully renovate.

It doesn't help that the building and fabrication trades have been run almost entirely by obnoxiously unbearable pricks, and when you spend twenty years telling everyone bullying isn't ok, is it any wonder young people don't want to do physically demanding work in terrible conditions working with obnoxiously unbearable pricks? When it's -10 degrees C outside, it's minus -10 in your work environment, when it's 40 plus degrees C it's 40 plus degrees in your work environment, and people rarely make big changes to themselves, so here we are.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#612
post #82
post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I hate to be "that guy", but you guys have this whole thing backwards. What men do is based on what men want. What men want is sex. If sex is free then you can have all the liberal or conservative values you want, but it won't cause those men to work harder. Why? Because sex is free. Full stop. If sex costs more than most men will ever have, then you can have all the liberal or conservative values you want, most men…

Straight hetero male here confirming. Too much work for real relationships and kids and marriage and all that. Much easier to just date around, get laid, and bail if things ever get hard.

I fully believe (though despise) the harsh but true evidence that I have seen in my life. Love is a lie, children are a burden, the future is bleak, etc. I would love to live in a world of community, great for kids, having a family is awesome, etc., but that's not where we live. Best to live for short-term rewards and after I die let the rest of the humans destroy themselves. I won't add another person to the madness.

When you can see that nothing we can do can derail the train headed for the cliff, and that the game theory at play has reduced relationships to transactional, short-lived interactions, you can choose to "hope for the best" and get burned, or just check out, try to enjoy your short term by working as little as possible in the machine, and then ending it if you get too old/sick to enjoy anymore.

A good example is just watching the lib/conserv and pro/anti male sentiments in this thread. It just makes it glaringly obvious that seriously participating in this system is an exercise in futility.

Its kinda like starting a game of monopoly with all the spaces owned. I'm gonna role the dice and I assume I'm not getting ahead. But I'm sure as hell not going to get invested, invite more people to play, or do more to enrich the bastards who setup such a crappy game in the first place.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#613
To me this reads like an opinion piece that will date quickly. Though the problem it identifies certainly exists.

> At the event, Parkinson stressed the importance of stability and two-parent families for children.

As oppose to a single parent that needs to work all the time, sure. But just read a few anthropology books, every possible combination of family and child raising method has worked in the past. Children raised in a small village, or extended family seems like it would be even better than a some modern concept of a traditional family where one member works and other cares for the house and children. In the UK the popular opinion in Victorian times was that children should not be shown affection because it would make them weak. Or even continuing to this day that the upper class don't really involve themselves with the child rearing too much - nannies and boarding schools. Probably that's another rearing method that's quite poor https://bylinetimes.com/2021/04/28/boris-johnson-is-a-boardi...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#614
IMVHO there are various variables the article do not take into account: we are in a decadent society, decadent enough that most cohorts/social classes see it, but in a too early stage to see something new to start structuring enough to know what we can do to pass the mess.

Middle class is deeply demolished, pushed to far lower level of wealth, high, but not so high class start seeing a possible escape toward a new neofeudal class but present situation is too liquid to been able to spot a right place and development plan, the only reasonable target is being flexible and diverse as much as possible, and that for young of the first cohort means the certainty of a future worse than that of their parents, witch fuel unrest and abandonment not taking careers since so far no one taught as you want seems to appear. For the second cohort that means try avoiding a career at all to avoid being trapped preferring gambling on family money waiting for the appearance of a more defined future. Both those cohort are acculturated enough to know that in anything the first pioneers who arrive, the frontier/first line will suffer and die quickly, the seconds, thanks to the knowledge of the pioneers prosper and the third will arrive late to prosper.

Poor know that they will be poorer but that is sold as not a such bad thing, they say society keep going in the end, humans are there for millennia and while there was good and bad moments for the real poor situations have mostly improved a bit, having seen a potential "in 2030 you'll own nothing and be happy" many of that cohort trust or at least desperately hope that that's will be the case.

So IMO essentially all "social classes" except for a very thin and more and more thinner élite see a bad future and no interest to do anything positive, some because there is no logic possible plan to go through the storm some because they think the storm is already around them and they can just hope not knowing because of lack of culture the classic una salus victis nullam sperare salutem.

Honestly, myself, coming from a wealthy family who can afford essentially anything we might reasonably want having a good personal social position, I have many ideas but still deeply hesitate because so far I can't see anything defined enough in the medium-long term. Schools was a deep delusion, at first I study at home with family selected teachers and with wonderful results confronted with my friends. At high school I decide to go to a school and the result was shockingly bad, I literally lived on income for almost all the time, having already more knowledge than the demand. At uni another delusion, programs seems to be designed to form Ford-model stereotypical workers just at an a bit formally higher level. That's was extremely demotivating and I do not know how can be for those who haven't even see something else.

Long story short it's more than mere no expectation: the modern society being way too elitist have deprived of any expectation anyone, promoting and rewarding mediocrity, crushing those who have personal expectations and desire with the clear aim of creating a society of useful idiots in the classic Greek sense, human-robots to be bolted is a pre-defined system. In that environment young can choose between:

- being criminals;

- being terrorists, as a sub-type of criminals whose target is more political and long term than for short-term profit;

- being nihilists abandoned on the screen to just see the world run as a spectacle.

I fear that there is no non-destructive ways out of such impasse. We are so folded in such a crappy social model that a war, a full-scale tragedy seems to be the least devastating option to change. History however tell that such movements never goes as planned, so plans are deeply needed and incredibly hard, while we all know that nothing will go according to the plan anyway, the needed plan is just a pre-digested guide to hope being successfully counter possible development in shorter times... That's stressful enough to made most just hopeless and a few minority neurotic and angry enough to being unable to do much more than quick shots guided by anger and emotions in general.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#615
post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peppi shirt?

The peppi (sorry, "pepe") le frog meme has become associated with the alt-right generally but the incel community specifically. I doubt he meant that he was literally wearing one as that would be a huge problem in our military. I take his statement to mean that he understands the question and its implication.

>The peppi (sorry, "pepe") le frog meme has become associated with the alt-right generally but the incel community specifically.

uh? by who and why? it's just meme that has various meanings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepe_the_Frog#As_a_meme

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#616
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Watching and hearing about the family instability in these communities is heartbreaking. Half or more of everyone’s parents are divorced. The kids float around seeking stability and the adults can’t provide it. You seem to be attributing the cause of this to 'Telling men and boys it's cool and fine to divorce' and not attributing to say... declining material and social capitol in the lower four quintiles of wealth…

So much of the elite wealthy class and their media sock puppets on both sides of the traditional left/right political divide are dedicated to pushing the identitarian culture war theme - because what they don't want to deal with is something like this: "Creating an economy where men can attain dignity and social respect."

> “Creating an economy where men can attain dignity and social respect."

What does that mean? Is everyone going to attend college and become coders? Who is going to collect the trash. In my home country the dominant job opportunity is subsistence farming, people still manage.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People tend to be absolutist about whether it’s better for kids if unhappy parents get divorced, but as the saying goes every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way. Some marriages are hell for everybody involved and need to end. I put abuse situations in that category of course and also marriages that have so much animosity that they can’t stop fighting. On the other end of marriages that may end in divorce are si…

Women control the social capital and function as norm setters in our society. Fixing men won’t help if women and the prevailing culture remain broken. All the divorces I’ve witnessed, nearly every married childhood friend of mine has been the victim of unwanted divorce - in every instance initiated by women who simply wanted a younger, richer, more x partner. All were heavily endorsed by the surrounding social groups…

I don’t understand how you get from family instability to sexual identity confusion. Can you explain the connection and preferably substantiate it with data.

The gist of what you’re saying is true: family instability causes one to question their identity. You fixated on sexual identity so explain why.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This resulted in the explosive growth of the quite profitable private prison complex (which did not exist before the 1970s) The government prison complex is orders of magnitude larger. Welfare is how they keep the poors from rocking the boat. Government jobs is the same tranquilizer but for people slightly better off. Edit: fine, maybe it's only one order of magnitude bigger.

I think you need to check your data sources. > "Private prisons in the United States incarcerated 115,428 people in 2019, representing 8% of the total state and federal prison population. Since 2000, the number of people housed in private prisons has increased 32% compared to an overall rise in the prison population of 3%." https://nicic.gov/private-prisons-united-states-2021

So a single order of magnitude larger

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#619
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to find a better reason why this happens. I don't believe it's liberal social values which are not lived by. First of I would believe it's an educational problem and second it's a 'who cares' problem. There are plenty of areas/ghettos of low income and low education around. The blog also contains the following: "The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and cu…

> How do they undermine the norm? They don't do this on purpose they are also just humans. I read a book [1] that argued the upper middle class follows very traditional values (two-parent families, marrying before having children, having at least one adult working 40 hours a week) but doesn't really advocate for those traditional values. People in the upper middle class will praise the bravery of single mothers and s…

Most people follow the conservative values, being "normal" is easiest. Its a matter of tolerance to other ideas or situation. Some either utterly rejects things that don't conform, or just wish to hide and shame them. Other people feel tolerance to differences is a good idea. And some people go full circle and want to shame anyone who doesn't completely identifies with the different ideas.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#620
Why should we believe that the author's perceived value signaling by some class of society (which is debatable already in a somewhat puritanical society) is the primary responsible for other adults' behavior? This seems so infantilizing. The poor do have agency too.
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