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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they visited, they'd find their assumptions to be unwarranted racism. It isn't as diverse as some other parts of the country, but there's groups of people from all over the world. Within a 2 hour drive from me, you'll find enclaves from Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Mexico and others.

Do you have black or Hispanic friends or colleagues that you know near you? Have you asked them about their experiences with race where you live?

Yup. We've discussed it a fair amount, as we also frequently talk about the news. One friend in particular has lived in a half dozen states, mostly in large cities but also smaller communities, and now lives here because it is where he wants to be. He was stabbed in a metro area by a skinhead. This illusion that big coastal cities of super expensive housing as a mecca of love and diversity that exists nowhere else is just that.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#292
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe if they visited, they'd find their assumptions to be unwarranted racism. It isn't as diverse as some other parts of the country, but there's groups of people from all over the world. Within a 2 hour drive from me, you'll find enclaves from Korea, Vietnam, Somalia, Mexico and others.

If not wanting to live in an enclave as a nominally second-class citizen is racist, then I don't know what to say. Let's not deny reality here, that's really what you end up being if you try to interact with the main racial group in a rural area, or at least the vast majority of them. It doesn't matter what race this happens to be, it's how people work. I know an Englishman who lives in an Indonesian village (not an…

Most of the tightly closed enclaves are by choice (refugee communities tend to stick together harder than others, from what I can tell). Obviously, not everyone lives in an enclave.

What on earth makes you think they are second class citizens? They vote, attend school board meetings, own homes and live just like anyone else.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#293
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a bit of over romanticism regarding being depressed and everything being shit which I think throws boomers a curve ball. They see the existential dread response to lack of prospects and think people are like this because they don't have avocado toasts, when the only way out is to breadth first search for Google. If you don't want that, I don't know what your prospects are nowadays coming out of universit…

The average house sold in 1946 cost $5.25K. The median salary at the time was $3K. The average house sold today costs $374K. The median salary is $51K. You can argue that those houses that were sold back then were smaller, but they were also made of vastly better materials than modern home construction, and it's not like people even have the opportunity of buying those smaller homes unless they want to live in a slum…

>but they were also made of vastly better materials than modern home construction

No way this is even close to being true. Newer houses with all the advancements in materials and construction science are much better than the post-war garbage that was spewed out.

I made a small fortune in my early 20s fixing and renovating those post-war houses. They're almost universally junk in comparison.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#294
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A median is one such average. By wanting to know the mean or the range shows that you're trying to cherrypick the result you want. > The average house sold in 1946 cost 1.75X. The median salary was X. > The average house sold in 2022 cost 7.33Y. The median salary is Y. Its clear from all the communications, unionizations, Great Resignation, and more that wages are completely broken. And that above shows what it looks…

> A median is one such average. By wanting to know the mean or the range shows that you're trying to cherrypick the result you want. I think GP is just trying to make sure we're comparing apples to apples. To me it almost comes across as you cherry picking data (average house price vs median salary).

It's just the data that's available.

The median house price so far this year is over $390K, by the way. The earlier value was for last year.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#295
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people would consider a suggestion to live in the Midwest as about the same as a suggestion that they spend the rest of their life living in a decrepit sewer system.

Maybe you should try to understand why certain kinds of people (of, perhaps the non-white kind) would not want to move into an insular community?

There are plenty of "non-white" kind of people in the midwest. Jeeze the racist stereotypes of the midwest is laughable

In my neighborhood I would say at minimum 25% of the home owners are non-white families, if not more.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote: I am Gen Z. This story holds true for my parents and I. My dad was a solider in Latin America, my mom, a nurse. Their job required, at most, 2 years of education beyond High School. I am a data analyst, with a Bachelor's and a Master's. I earn more than they both did together, adjusted for inflation. My friends are in "specialized jobs" as well -- some even being doctors and lawyers. We still have zero hope…

> We still have zero hope of affording a house, let alone retirement. This is ridiculous. If that’s actually true, move . Lower your expenses. Figure out something else.

Leaving your support network while already struggling means that things like free childcare from family now needs to be made up for with professional childcare, career prospects can be lower without your professional network, and should you fall on hard times, like being laid off, divorced or getting sick/injured, you can end up in a much deeper hole than you would in place with a support network that can help you get back on your feet.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

Yes. You've never been able to buy a house or raise "a family of four" on minimum wage. Minimum wage was never intended to provide that level of income.

Here's what FDR said about the minimum wage:

> It seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.

> By business I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have black or Hispanic friends or colleagues that you know near you? Have you asked them about their experiences with race where you live?

Yup. We've discussed it a fair amount, as we also frequently talk about the news. One friend in particular has lived in a half dozen states, mostly in large cities but also smaller communities, and now lives here because it is where he wants to be. He was stabbed in a metro area by a skinhead. This illusion that big coastal cities of super expensive housing as a mecca of love and diversity that exists nowhere else is…

No post body was provided.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#299
post #259
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's harder to maintain the illusion of possible upward mobility. Let's look at a typical scenario. You graduate from university with 100k in student loans. Let's say you get a fairly decently paid entry-level job paying 75k. Great, you might be able to pay down those loans in 10 years, if not more. And when you're finally ready to buy a house, the ones that haven't been converted to rentals are all costing 8 or 10 t…

>Let's look at a typical scenario. You graduate from university with 100k in student loans. A 100k balance at graduation is definitely not "typical". The average right now is $31k. https://educationdata.org/average-student-loan-debt-by-year

To be fair, making 75K straight out of uni also is not typical.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We still have zero hope of affording a house, let alone retirement. This is ridiculous. If that’s actually true, move . Lower your expenses. Figure out something else.

Moving thousands of miles sucks . Leaving all of your family, friends, and work is an enormous disruption to a life.

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