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Gen Z does not dream of labor

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Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#261

Post by heavyset_go »

boplicity wrote: post #226
stolenmerch wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't understand. When I bought a home I was literally making the US median income and bought an average priced house. My rent at the time was about a thousand a month. I had normal student loans and regular bills too. It wasn't easy but it didn't feel like a miracle either. Not saying someone making minimum can do this by any means, but there's a huge demand for labor in decent paying areas right now. I g…

The cost of a house has spiked to over 7x median income in the US, in a very short time. That's put buying a house out of reach for many people. Hopefully the bubble will burst -- but who knows? It could drag on for a very long time. Historically, the cost of a house has hovered around 4.5 to 5.5x annual median income. It's currently at the highest level it's ever been, at least according to this graph: https://www.l…

> Hopefully the bubble will burst -- but who knows? It could drag on for a very long time.

The median home price in Canada is $800k and rising, while in the US it is $400k and rising. Housing prices in the US could easily double.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#262

Post by Mezzie »

syshum wrote: post #206
Mezzie wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're on to something, but there is one thing that I question: > As far as I can tell, the difference was that by the time they reached mid 20s they were quickly running out of peers who would tell them it was a good idea to embrace such a lifestyle forever. The real world catches up and you notice that your real-world friends who work normal jobs and “settle down” are actually having a good time (on average…

>>re buried under student loans, and can't save enough for retirement. we have almost 3 years of deferment now for student loan debt, if they have not been able to improve their situations in that time this speaks more to financial ignorance than it does not being able to afford things. I wonder how many of your friends know what a 50/30/20 budget is? Do they actually track all of their expenses properly, etc.

One thing of note for my cohort is that those around my age (34) graduated either into or around the Great Recession. When we started school, it was all 'do what you love/any degree will do' and that changed while we were in school, so we are kind of a fucked micro-generation.

Also of note is that I have a professional graduate degree, as do many of my colleagues, which tends to have higher student debt.

While we've had three years of deferments and that's been awesome for people like me (and presumably you) who've been comfortably employed the whole time, a lot of people were also impacted financially by the pandemic so it ended up being a wash. Think of increased childcare costs as schools randomly closed, people who work in academia/local government being furloughed, etc.

I will say that those who have done the best financially have been those who left the US.

I'd also say a lot of the problem is housing. Planning can only get you so far when rent goes up every year more than your wages do.

Also this doesn't address the point that my sister's friends, who are just as irresponsible, are better off.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#263

Post by kortilla »

heavyset_go wrote: post #241
zdragnar wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing, but still rural city in the Midwest I visited a few weeks back has decent homes for sale in the 50-80k range. This is not an outlier. Roughly 2/3 of Americans own homes. If you live in an area where homes are priced like luxury investments, then yes, you'll have a hard time buying when you also cannot afford other luxuries. If you live in an area where they are not, it isn't unattainable at all, especially i…

The places I've seen with houses in the $50k to $80k range are in Rust Belt-esque areas whose time has long passed, or in places where a "career" means working at Walmart or cooking methamphetamine. Their economic prospects aren't that great, and their long term economic prospects are even worse. Rural areas also tend not to be great places for LGBT people, either.

The Bay Area was nothing in the 80s either. NYC wasn’t even a desirable place to be during that time either.

People who pick just what’s attractive at the moment are pretty short-sighted and I have no sympathy for them.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#264

Post by pharmakom »

endisneigh wrote: post #28

Curious how all of the issues are resolved. If workers (as they should imo) get paid more, it will result in more inflation, resulting in their purchasing power on key things like housing effectively not changing as inflation adjusts the cost of housing to be more expensive. I'm also curious to see if companies run by Gen Z pay better or worse than Boomer run companies. If they're not I don't see how the situation wi…

So unaffordable housing is a law of nature? How depressing.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#265

Post by true_religion »

zdragnar wrote: post #190
bombcar wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people would consider a suggestion to live in the Midwest as about the same as a suggestion that they spend the rest of their life living in a decrepit sewer system.

Fine by me; there's plenty of natural beauty and life style that would be utterly ruined by a massive influx of tech bro outsiders. In the last year or two a locally-famous lighthouse went up for sale and was bought for cash by some guy from silicon valley. Instead of being turned into an attraction, or a house, or hell even an Airbnb spot, it remains untouched much to the chagrin of the locals. I guess the new owner…

I’m sure they had some plans for it, but a little thing called COVID detailed most plans. Who knows, maybe the owner isn’t even with us anymore and their heirs are still figuring things out.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#266

Post by thethethethe »

skulk wrote: post #83
bufferoverflow wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this narrative is that the job of the father isn't specified. He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. These jobs pay well above the minimum wage. The world has changed - simple labor that requires a few days of training doesn't pay much. Most jobs, with few exceptions, that require a decade of training, do pay well. That's why there's such a huge…

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Us median _household_ income is 60k

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#267

Post by smileysteve »

gruez wrote: post #253
notacoward wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Minimum wage jobs are literally the lowest paying jobs a person could possibly find. That is incorrect. There are whole categories of jobs that are exempt from minimum wage, and that doesn't even count gig work.

>There are whole categories of jobs that are exempt from minimum wage I'm presuming you're talking about tipped jobs? It seems reasonable to presume that they earn close to minimum wage when factoring in tips, otherwise people would switch to non-exempt jobs.

> otherwise people would switch to non-exempt jobs.

But we're seeing this in the US, between covid restaurant layoffs and closures; Tipped dining service is struggling to recruit.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#268

Post by stjohnswarts »

I think the celebs on tiktok have a vast megaphone for like 1% of gen-z. I'm not the worried. If they become a little less consumerist/capitalistic I would say that's great. I don't see any decrease in people going to school or trying for jobs though, so I am unconcerned and recommend that you also be less consumed.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#269

Post by throwaway48375 »

StevePerkins wrote: post #210
skulk wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He could've been a plumber/electrician/welder who would do really well in the current market. False. A plumber making $80k (US median seems to be around $60k) isn't going to be able to save up for a down payment if they're paying a typical mid-sized city's rent (~$1.2k a month). Not to mention housing costs going up during this period of saving up.

Not to mention that plumber probably doesn't have health coverage. The people who love to talk about what a fine profession that would be (for other people's kids, of course, never their own kids) are the same people who fight tooth and nail against any kind of health care policy that might make a non-white collar career more viable.

In my area United Association Plumbers get $42.77/hour and have great benefits including healthcare/pension. I agree though we need truly universal healthcare like medicare for all. The system we have now is hopelessly broken.

Re: Gen Z does not dream of labor

#270

Post by pydry »

tayo42 wrote: post #160
pydry wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of people who learned to code and never cracked that entry level job.

I almost left programming because I couldn't get past the interviews or deal with no one wanting to hire juniors. I don't have a cs degree. What a night mare. Dumb luck I am where I am now

Congrats on making it through the great bottleneck.
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