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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

651–660 of 1001 posts

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the opinions of any one person that matter, it's the expressed opinion of society as a whole, which is made up of the expressed opinions of every individual. It has to start with someone, but I don't think anyone here is under the illusion that one person speaking out is sufficient to alter the culture.

There is no "opinion of society as a whole". There are myriad different cultures within the society, each with their own opinion.

Fair, that was an oversimplification. I don't believe that that substantially alters my point, though: no one is saying that if only wealthy person X would speak up everything would be better. People are arguing that we need a surge of people speaking up in defense of the choices they made that contributed to their success.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#655
post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bed…

2% of hourly workers make federal minimum wage or lower according to BLS numbers. Many lower paying jobs (Walmart, McDonalds, etc) pay about $10 an hour. They generally don't provide benefits. So even if you get two jobs to fill a 40hr week, you're stuck with the medical costs. Good luck paying for housing and medical coverage (transportation, taxes, retirement, etc) at $20k per year in most areas. Hopefully you can…

That 2% also includes disabled people where they can legally be paid below minimum wage. E.g. Walmart greeters with downs sydrome...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much of the elite wealthy class and their media sock puppets on both sides of the traditional left/right political divide are dedicated to pushing the identitarian culture war theme - because what they don't want to deal with is something like this: "Creating an economy where men can attain dignity and social respect."

> “Creating an economy where men can attain dignity and social respect." What does that mean? Is everyone going to attend college and become coders? Who is going to collect the trash. In my home country the dominant job opportunity is subsistence farming, people still manage.

> What does that mean? Is everyone going to attend college and become coders? Who is going to collect the trash.

The obvious solution is to discard classism and extend dignity and respect to the garbage-collectors. Why shouldn't they be respected? They perform an essential service for their community.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#657
> People think that if a young guy comes from a disorderly or deprived environment, he should be held to low standards. This is misguided. He should be held to high standards. Otherwise, he will sink to the level of his environment.

In my city, the local government stopped arrests for crimes like theft, property damage, and open drug use. For crimes involving assault, they would maybe do an arrest, keep the person locked up overnight, and then let them go.

The local politicians argued this was right and moral, because these people only commit crime because they come from poverty or generally don’t have “privilege”.

Well… it’s no longer a desirable place to live. The streets are littered with trash, there’s a problem of used drug syringes in public parks and other public spaces, and there are homicides just about every day in the news, or stories of some homeless person assaulting some pedestrian. Just the other week, some old Asian woman got sucker punched. I think a few weeks before that, some drug addict beat a woman with a bat at a public transit stop.

I’m a fairly progressive person, overall. But I look around, and I’m not sure what country I’m in at times.

And I’m writing this on HN because I think the tech industry is part of the problem. When I was at Amazon, we had essentially stopped hiring any demographic in engineering roles except for Indian nationals. We’d bring them in at slightly below market pay (still respectable salaries), but these folks often had 30 days to leave the country if they quit Amazon’s grueling corporate environment. Meanwhile, we didn’t give them the right to vote, effectively shutting down out from the political process. And, for the most part, these folks were willing to work with a toxic work culture, since the alternative meant having to uproot their families and leave the country, perhaps hoping for permanent residency in Canada.

In retrospect, we decided to not hire people born in this country. But we also didn’t want to give the full rights to the people we brought in to substitute them. We knew full and well that if it becomes easy for them to switch jobs, we wont be able to extract the same work hours from them.

Meanwhile, America’s poor are completely forgotten and lost.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear what you're saying, but words matter. I can never support a slogan I explicitly disagree with. There's plenty of better slogans out there. I'd support "end police violence" or "stop killer cops" or something. Thats certainly much more catchy than the full slogan right now, which seems to be "Defund the police, but we don't really want to do that, even though some people in our movement actually do want that, b…

Intent and good-faith argument also matter. If you're not willing to look past another person's inexpert use of grammar and/or syntax in order to understand their meaning, then you're doing it wrong. No trophies for elevating language to be a rigid and immutable thing.

From a purely practical perspective, if you're trying to convey an idea the onus is kinda on you to communicate it clearly. If the literal meaning of what you're saying ('defund the police') is not actually what you're trying to convey, it seems unproductive to accuse people of acting in 'bad faith' when they understandably misunderstand. It's like designing something badly and then blaming your users for 'not using it right'.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#659
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

incels commit almost no violence against women compared to men in relationships

How does violence in hetero relationships compare to those of same-sex relationships?

I think in lesbian relationships it is higher than in heterosexual relationships. Don't have any good links off the top of my head. But here is a BBC article which claims it is higher in same sex relationships: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29994648

Male violence is quite high stakes so I could see if you have two people who carry out lower stakes violence then you could end up with higher rates of violence.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "opinion of society as a whole". There are myriad different cultures within the society, each with their own opinion.

Fair, that was an oversimplification. I don't believe that that substantially alters my point, though: no one is saying that if only wealthy person X would speak up everything would be better. People are arguing that we need a surge of people speaking up in defense of the choices they made that contributed to their success.

I think the article significantly overplays the extent to which that doesn't happen. I don't actually think there is any shortage of affluent / professional class / cosmopolitan people who are outspokenly proud of their stable families. But I don't think they have any influence whatsoever over the working class culture exhibiting the problems highlighted. They're two different cultures without much overlap or influence over one another.
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