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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#631

Post by dennis_jeeves1 »

archhn wrote: post #265
dennis_jeeves1 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're living in an utterly corrupt society. I know the middle class types on here don't like to hear it, but it's true. At the bottom of society, one can see clearly how bad it is. In the middle, you are insulated in your little suburban homes with your inflated sense of self-worth It's a fairly accurate representation of the way things are, as I see it. >This can't last forever. I think this was the way it was sinc…

How many civilizations have lasted since time immemorial? You could have said this in Rome and you would have been right. You could have said this as a slave to the pharos and you would have been right. It never lasts forever.

Ok, you are correct, to state it more accurately as long as civilizations ( in it's current form) exist, there have been slaves, and all indications are that it will not change. Unless somehow each individual somehow become physically powerful enough to stand up to large a collective of the 'enemy', slavery in some form will always exist.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#632

Post by zozbot234 »

rayiner wrote: post #622
Applejinx wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As notacoward observes… literally 'men'? To my ear, 'people' would've worked too. I feel it's always worth asking whether there are unstated axioms here being snuck into the discourse. Especially in a big conversation about how 'everything is being ruined because people won't stick to the old good ways'. Though it may be an uncomfortable question to some, to what extent does this rest upon female humans serving as li…

Any culture that equates women having and raising kids with “being livestock” will be replaced by a society that doesn’t see motherhood that way. By definition.

It's the exact same culture that sees "happiness" for women in pursuing "a younger, richer, more x partner", as noted by a sibling commenter. The idea that many women as well as men might find genuine happiness and fulfillment within stable, well-functioning household relationships is entirely foreign to some "modern" ways of thinking.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#633

Post by adventured »

Replace "expects" with "encourages" and you'd be on to something.

Women are massively encouraged in society today, by a barrage of persistent and positive messaging across all mediums. Young men are not. The results were highly predictable and it has been warned about for multiple decades at this point.

Women are subsidized and favored in their pursuit of education. Men are not.

Today from a young age girls are told they can do anything, they can be anything. Today they're openly told they're better than boys and that's not considered sexist. Women walk around with shirts or other propaganda formats that say: The Future is Female. That's hyper sexist, hyper bigoted against men, and yet in society it's tolerated. This cultural behavior is regressive and intentionally promoting of inequality.

The pendulum is increasingly swinging hard against men. If you want a collapsed society, allow it to continue. The deficit is already so bad it'll take decades to repair, in society broadly, from the damage that has occurred amongst younger males.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#634

Post by bradlys »

the_solenoid wrote: post #410
jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

I agree - and will take it one step further: he misses the root causes of "instability", and I bet it tracks directly with the gutting of the middle class starting in the 70's, and/or the same flat-lining of wages (not keeping up with inflation etc) despite huge increases in productivity in about the same time period. Money is a huge stressor in relationships. Misogyny is still a huge thing (to my utter surprise hone…

The author of this article used Charles Murray’s Coming Apart as a source. He’s a pretty… controversial figure. The counterpart to him that is more progressive and less controversial is Robert Putnam. His books are a lot more digestible. I’d suggest looking up talks with the author on YouTube. (He even has a debate with Charles Murray - as they are somewhat of friends)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/22609334-our-kids

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/50124402-the-upswing

One thing I want to mention here is that it seems that social effects come before economic effects. People go through social change and then the economics follow later. That’s the one thing I would take away from the books/talks. Somewhat ironic to many here.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#636

Post by hotpotamus »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #635

My purpose is to make money for a woman and children, thats it? I might as well be a cow providing milk. Wow no shit, that doesn’t sound attractive to me.

Welcome to the club. If you find something better, remember this comment and message me.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#637

Post by Workaccount2 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #438
coryrc wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were fewer deportations per year under TFG than Obama. Not sure if you've checked what happened to living costs and housing during that administration, because they sure went up a lot.

The parent was asking about “policy proposals ”. I imagine lack of success of President Trump in implementing his proposals has made many of his voters unhappy. That said, if you don’t focus on deportations, but instead look at the entire picture, note that the total net illegal immigrant flow was significantly lower during President Trump than it was during President Obama, and has jumped through the roof as soon as…

For a couple years after trump was elected I worked with many illegals. Many of them were scared of trump and had family that was scared to come over because of him. It was more rumor than reality that kept numbers down, but none the less it was working.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#638

Post by AlexandrB »

AviationAtom wrote: post #486
fullshark wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That being said, what do you feel is the cause of a drain in motivation on the endemic level? It's a natural reaction to the fact that opportunities are shrinking in terms of quality and payoff. There are lots of "jobs" but they don't offer long term stability or growth.

On the flipside, most employees don't feel tied to an employer, even if the employer treats them well. Often many folks are chasing higher pay. I know in the cybersecurity realm quite a few folks are job hoppers, and right now employers are all to anxious to try to pick off talent from competitors. One of my former co-workers is now at their fifth job in five years, and each time they were chasing a higher paycheck.…

This didn't happen overnight. When I was in my early teens in the 90s I already had a sense, from listening to the news, that employers were out for their own self-interest first and foremost. Massive layoffs, shrinking benefits, and the concept of public companies being primarily responsible to their shareholders all send the same message: "At the end of the day, you are disposable. Loyalty will not be reciprocated."

As an employee, it would be irrational to ignore this and hope that loyalty would be rewarded.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#639

Post by itronitron »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

It's important to keep in mind that there have been significant policy decisions that diminish the positive impact of social programs by taking into account the marital status of those receiving them.

The documentary 'The Pruitt-Igoe Myth' provides a nice case study on the societal impact of otherwise banal policy and funding decisions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pruitt-Igoe_Myth

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#640

Post by pojzon »

Soon all low profile jobs will be performed by robots (one way or another). We wont run from that.

Im curious what rich will have to say to few billion ppl on Earth then.

“Dude just get a better job”

“Just try harder” “Some generic slogan that doesnt work in reality.

The whole modern world is a ponzi scheme. There have to be ppl starving so that I can write that post on my iphone while sitting on the toilet in 4 bedroom appartment..

For that to change we need a system change. And we all know it will never happen, because humans have greed and inequality encoded in DNA. (Its actually true if you search for right papers).

Which is extremely sad, because our human nature is probably what will destroy us in the long run.

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