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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#561

Post by UncleMeat »

nitrogen wrote: post #478
UncleMeat wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The law could be described as “baring presentations about sex (straight or otherwise) to a classroom of 5-8 year olds” One of the authors of the bill was asked if a math textbook that had a word problem saying "Jimmy and his dads go to the store..." would be in violation of this law. He responded that this was precisely the sort of thing the law was intending to prevent. The law is very much not just about direct s…

Such subversively worded math problems should be avoided, no matter who the named parties are. "Jimmy, Jack, and John go to the store..." would be just as effective of a setup for a story problem without sneaking in moral displays.

Regardless of your opinion of the "subversive" nature of such a word problem, it becomes exceedingly clear that the bill is about more than "presentations about sex (straight or otherwise) to a classroom of 5-10 year olds", as the parent claims.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#562

Post by UncleMeat »

DeathArrow wrote: post #372
UncleMeat wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pros and cons. A big challenge with rigid social expectations is identifying the beneficial ones and removing the harmful ones. In practice, there tends to be little introspection about which traditional expectations help and which ones hurt. Instead, people appeal to tradition itself as evidence that an expectation is helpful. If we could more effectively iterate on these social expectations then we'd be able to mor…

The tentatives to artificially engineer the society to be more just, fair and inclusive only resulted in a less just, less fair and less inclusive society. The society should be left to evolve on its own, in a natural way. If we don't want to replace small disasters with big disasters.

Civil rights for gay people and black people were criticized "artificially engineering society". As were voting rights for women or access to birth control. Subservient roles for women and labor roles for black people were seen as "natural." I think you'd be absolutely crazy to consider rights for these populations to have led to a "less just and less fair society."

There is no such thing as natural society. Society is constructed by humans.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#564

Post by Cederfjard »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #250
dijit wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did this idea come from that we cannot see what exists outside of ourselves and our experiences? I can empathise with people who are nothing like me. I can understand silly things that people like me do, and how they must look to people who are not like me. It is only infant humans that can’t understand that anything exists outside of themselves. Are we all infants?

Psychologists recognize that a surprisingly large percentage of people have no little to no ability to visualize abstractions or engage in mentally taxing feats of empathy. These people are more prone to believe that it’s only possible to obtain insight about a circumstance from only those individuals in said circumstance. When people comment about this, it generates confusion for people like you. :)

What do I search for if I want to read up on that research?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#565

Post by BlargMcLarg »

wpietri wrote: post #448
what-the-grump wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yay the patriarchy! :)

I think this comment could be longer, but I think it has an in important point. The article ignores a huge change over that time period: increasing freedom for women from patriarchy. Any sort of "staying with the mother of their kids" argument has to acknowledge we can't just turn the clock back. The truth then and now is that a lot of men were not and are not good partners. (Anybody who doubts me should spend time r…

>Young men do need plenty more education and pressure on how to do it right.

People in general need more education on how to do it right. Women aren't exactly free of guilt on this.

>Anybody who doubts me should spend time reading Am I the Asshole.

This only confirms men are more often outed as poor male partners. A forum full of anecdotes being labeled does not imply a large population of bad male partners. That's about as ridiculous as going to 4chan and implying a significant amount / too many women are promiscuous because it has enough examples of promiscuous women.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#566

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

VLM wrote: post #437
coryrc wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that can be obtained even with low paying jobs Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America. There's no stability to be found for low-paid workers. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-mini...

Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bed…

Speaking of innumeracy, how would a person afford to save for a homeloan deposit, while also paying for health insurance, rent, food, and vehicle maintenance. With kids? Might as well hang yourself, before the kids hang themselves.

I'm in Australia, so the numbers are approximately similar, our minimum wage is $20.33 an hour, our public health care system had been eroded by successive governments, and never included non-emergency dental so you probably want to spend around $40 to $60 or more a week on health insurance.

No one on $19 an hour is buying houses.

If your minimum wage is $7 an hour, but the lowest paying job currently advertised is $19 an hour, let's just call the effective minimum wage $19 an hour, and base or assumptions off that.

Many people are living that way, sure, but, man, both the USA and Australia have turned to shit. Fuck being a young person today without the good fortune of being born with good genes in to a good family. People can't find places to rent even in the small city I live in, families are living out of their cars, or in tents under bridges.

In Australian! It's not like we're short on land, or wealth.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#567

Post by selimthegrim »

AvocadoPanic wrote: post #123
refurb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off the article says nothing about marriage it speaks of “two parent households”, so an unmarried couple raising kids would fit the author’s thesis entirely. Second, pretty sure I’d argue the recent riots in Sweden would back up exactly the author’s theory around poorly behaved young males. But hey, your nutritional rate is high!

Or 'migrants' exhibiting the typical behavior of their homeland. See Vienna 1683.

The Lipka Tatars would like a word.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#568

Post by mensetmanusman »

gumby wrote: post #382
mensetmanusman wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still seems like a moment of temporary stability though, especially as their social structure starts to stress from the old:worker ratio going from >5 to I.e. unless they accept 30% immigration over the next 50 years, the system will be extremely stressed and may fracture.

> unless they accept 30% immigration over the next 50 years, the system will be extremely stressed and may fracture. There’s no reason to expect that not to happen. Countries like Germany already been have a higher immigration rate than the US, and once had a much higher rate when they needed workers post war. European political decision making is primarily bullshit muddle and and absurd “compromise” yet in the end i…

About 19% of the US is immigrant compared to like 17% in Germany, so they are fairly similar. Can they bring the rest of Europe along though? It’s a huge challenge…

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#569

Post by throwaway894345 »

dghlsakjg wrote: post #556
throwaway894345 wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in rural America and I would describe my experiences with police in the same terms. Of course, the purpose of policing is to deter crime, not give “positive experiences”. And thanks in large part to these luxury beliefs, police departments are doing less preventative policing (routine traffic stops, etc) especially in communities of color for fear of being the next Ferguson, and consequently violent crime i…

Thinking back on it, I never had a positive experience in terms of outcome. Positive experience in terms of interaction would have been the consolation prize. Pulling over more people for expired tags and other pretext stops is hardly what we needed more of. I once had an officer decline to take a copy of video of my vehicle being stolen since he said it wasn’t going to be investigated anyway. How does a department l…

The problem with analyzing based on your own experience is that you don’t experience the crime that you don’t experience. The evidence coming out of this crime wave does seem to suggest that preventative policing works even if it leaves you and I with a bad taste in our mouths when we’re the ones pulled over.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#570

Post by coryrc »

VLM wrote: post #437
coryrc wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that can be obtained even with low paying jobs Minimum wage workers can't afford rent anywhere in America. There's no stability to be found for low-paid workers. https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/15/homes/rent-affordability-mini...

Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bed…

First, it's not federal minimum wage, it's minimum wage for each jurisdiction. So Washington state being $11 or whatever it is, not the federal min.

Second, for some reason I believe the propaganda that city living is inherently less costly despite it being pricier everywhere in the USA, so I believe rich city liberals need to change zoning to allow cheap housing to be built.

Finally, they're living that way by getting ostensibly making minimum wage, but with so high of commuting time and cost as to be making less per hour but working more than 40. Or by living in miserable conditions: in an RV, 8 people to a 3-bedroom house, etc

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