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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#161

Post by AbrahamParangi »

gumby wrote: post #19

It’s interesting to read these (plausible, far from absurd) analyses from the Anglosphere when we have an alternative to compare, to whit the northern European democracies where marriage is in steep decline across all social classes yet the societies are more successful (at least if your metrics are things like poverty rates, lifetimes, nutrition, stress, etc).

I think missing from this comparison is that while the US is quite different from Finland, New Hampshire when taken on its own is quite similar.

But we never ask, “how could we make the whole US like New Hampshire?” and probably for good reason! I don’t think we’d want the whole US to be that way. The US is big and diverse and that’s a good thing.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#162

Post by bombcar »

bilbo0s wrote: post #82
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I hate to be "that guy", but you guys have this whole thing backwards. What men do is based on what men want. What men want is sex. If sex is free then you can have all the liberal or conservative values you want, but it won't cause those men to work harder. Why? Because sex is free. Full stop. If sex costs more than most men will ever have, then you can have all the liberal or conservative values you want, most men…

Liberals and conservatives agree on the basics and disagree on the scope - which is why conservatives are always defending the so-called “liberal” policies of a generation ago.

Admitting the base and vulgar nature of humans puts the whole concept of a liberal democracy at risk.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#163

Post by xpe »

Does the author self-declare their philosophical and political beliefs?

In my view, doing so is necessary for an author to be intellectually honest and open.

Generally speaking, I'm not looking for an author to 'sneak in' a belief by way of a good narrative.

I've read similar commentary by a socially conservative author writing under a pen name (Theodore Dalyrimple) [1]. He wrote a highly selective account that matched his beliefs. It is one thing to so this -- it is another thing to try to hide the underlying belief system which preceded the commentary.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Dalrymple

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#164

Post by throwaway6734 »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

>The contrast made me realize that professing liberal social values that one doesn’t live by harms society. It matters what we say about what’s good and what’s bad, what works and what doesn’t. Creating a culture where men can attain dignity and social respect by providing for their family and staying with the mother of their kids matters.

Liberal social values includes committing and providing for your family

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#165

Post by [deleted] »

bilbo0s wrote: post #82
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

I hate to be "that guy", but you guys have this whole thing backwards. What men do is based on what men want. What men want is sex. If sex is free then you can have all the liberal or conservative values you want, but it won't cause those men to work harder. Why? Because sex is free. Full stop. If sex costs more than most men will ever have, then you can have all the liberal or conservative values you want, most men…

[deleted]

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#166

Post by ekianjo »

idontknowifican wrote: post #87
rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person. i don’t know if expectations being set because of being a man makes any sense, but i firmly believe you must have goals and morals. i think we spend a lot of time struggling with the roles we’re assigned. no for any deep reason, it’s just work and people tend to hate it. i think it comes down to the in…

> when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person.

That does not make any sense. Most older generations did not choose to have children (certainly not as much as we do) and it did not result in generations being "disaffected". If anything that's exactly the opposite - we are the generation when we have full control of who gets born and there's never been more unhappy families in History than now.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#167

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #119
rayiner wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a matter of luck—men in my dad’s village in Bangladesh start families, have kids, and live relatively happy lives in poverty even most poor Americans could not comprehend. I don’t think it’s fair to call all these guys incels. As the article observes, most just have no expectations placed on them, and also have no way of attaining dignity and social worth through the avenues in life reasonably available to t…

It is sunday morning. I'm at work (military). Part of that job is checking in with people at a half-dozen other locations who are also at work on a sunday morning. they just happen to all be hetero guys, which is not unusual in the military no matter the day. So I asked in our chat whether they had wives/girlfriends at home today. "No." "Nope." "My car is my GF" and "Rocking a peppi shirt under my uniform". These are…

[deleted]

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#168

Post by noasaservice »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #99
ryan93 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

incels commit almost no violence against women compared to men in relationships

A large supply of men who DGAF and don't have much holding them down is how you get really serious social instability. They might not be beating their wives but let it roll unchecked for 20yr and it gets bad.

It's not about "dont give a fuck". This is about intergenerational poverty, and the costs that we all will have to pay because the elites decided to destroy social mobility for the poverty-stricken classes.

When you are born and live in poverty, hold jobs that amount to minimum wage or tiny bits above it, have no way to *see* a future of any sort of success; happiness, alcohol, drugs, and sex are the primary forms of feeling good or not feeling pain....

Yeah, you're going to have massive problems at a societal scale.

The elites of this country, along with governments bribed, gerrymandered, and installed by said elites made the volitional changes to social programs that keep people down in poverty. And we're living with those changes since Reagan went off about that "black welfare fraud woman". That was the start of poverty-austerity movement: the idea that cutting off most/all funding would get them to not be lazy.

The credit system instituted in the late 80's only has further cemented the idea that "if you were poor now, you'll still be poor and we wont help you". And housing has gone stratospheric, as have all other bills. And insert homeless numbers talk here - homeless are used as a tool of the elites to show what happens if you don't play along monetarily.

I'm honestly surprised that the political elites haven't instituted ST:DS9's "Sanctuary Districts" (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Sanctuary_District) . Out of sight, out of mind.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#169

Post by archhn »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #126
archhn wrote: post #53

We're living in an utterly corrupt society. I know the middle class types on here don't like to hear it, but it's true. At the bottom of society, one can see clearly how bad it is. In the middle, you are insulated in your little suburban homes with your inflated sense of self-worth. Many people here are outright slaves. They are trapped in a predatory system that prevents them from gaining any dignity. It should be n…

While I broadly empathize with what you're saying here, this: > No one that believes in their country becomes a criminal. seems completely indefensible. There are all kinds of criminals who see it as a legitimate way to exist and thrive within society. There are also many different kinds of crime, including white collar. Particularly when you live in a "got to get ahead" society, pretty much anything that can you hel…

The law is supposed to be the sacred foundation upon which a nation is built. Perhaps this view of law has been forgotten, which further emphasises my point about corruption.

Breaking the law, in a serious way--I'm not talking about jaywalking--shows contempt for the foundational order of a nation.

When I was younger, boy scout and all, I truly believed breaking the law was the worst thing one could possibly do. I was told how important the law is and that it deserves our utmost respect. From this mindset, breaking the law and becoming a criminal is percieved as a monstrous act-- inexusable. That's how I saw things when I believed in America.

Things have certainly changed, as your comment demonstrates. People now think it's more important to make money than abide by the law. The law is just seen as a referee, something to get around, not a noble set of rules that are laid down to govern our conduct for the good of us all.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#170

Post by [deleted] »

t0suj4 wrote: post #95
Helitioo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to find a better reason why this happens. I don't believe it's liberal social values which are not lived by. First of I would believe it's an educational problem and second it's a 'who cares' problem. There are plenty of areas/ghettos of low income and low education around. The blog also contains the following: "The people with the most money and education—the class most responsible for shaping culture and cu…

From what I've heard the problem are divorce courts granting women nearly everything. That rigs the game against dads. Marriage is a huge liability. Men are gambling with nearly all their lives on their partner's unwillingness into a divorce. On the other hand I've heard rumors where therapists were suggesting divorce to married women. I don't know how widespread that is but maybe something worth looking into.

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