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Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

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Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#161

Post by throwaway981572 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #137

Not to get off topic but what seems to be lost in the HN discussion is that this is a coastal public library offering books to teens that are banned in their local school. It's not about all banned books. There's also the dynamic of a (left leaning?) coastal entity overriding right-leaning communities. This might play well in Brookyln, but it's also powerful political fodder for the more conservative areas being over…

In what sense is BPL “over-riding” these communities? I thought they decided not to carry these books in their school libraries, not that students are not allowed to read them even outside of school.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#162

Post by sangnoir »

robonerd wrote: post #121
sangnoir wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure exactly how it works, in legal terms, but it's great for obscure books. Does it pay the rights holders (and authors) like other libraries? The Brooklyn library likely does. IIRC, archive.org clashed with authors during lockdown around it’s lending practices, I don’t know if that has been resolved. I’m against excessive IP exploitation, but I’m for authors getting paid.

Libraries don't necessarily pay rights holders or authors. They buy books like anybody else, which means they sometimes buy books on the second hand market. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Unlike physical books, the First sale doctrine doesn't apply to e-book licenses. Typically, the license expires after a couple of reads, and the rights holders has a say on how many times a copy may be lent out, and how many copies can be borrowed simultaneously using DRM - which means they can set the average price paid each time an e-book is borrowed.

I listened to a fascinating podcast on the history of Overdrive / Libby a few months back; might have been produced by NPR, but I sadly can't find it.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#163

Post by HWR_14 »

mardifoufs wrote: post #156
HWR_14 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. If it's supported (tacitly or explicitly) by the Russian government, I would expect them to have books that polarize Americans.

Okay, but what russian books are banned on libgen? Because otherwise this is just such a weird conspiracy. The russian government is funding niche fringe books on a niche website to divide Americans? But also not censoring anything that would hurt their own cabale?

My point was more "of the books that would be banned, these are not the right type of books." I don't speak Russian, but I would doubt they have anti-Putin books in Russian or in English. That seems bad for the curators health.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#164

Post by jeffbee »

stolenmerch wrote: post #153
jeffbee wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which of the books on the ALA's list of the 100-most-challenged books of the 2010s do you believe was probably challenged by "left-leaning" busybodies? https://www.ala.org/advocacy/bbooks/frequentlychallengedbook...

I'd start with #2 on the list, Captain Underpants. It got banned in many libraries due to supposedly "racist" imagery. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-race-captain-underpan...

Eh, that's not why Captain Underpants is banned, though. Captain Underpants is banned because of these reasons.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-captain-underpants-is-th...

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#165

Post by [deleted] »

robonerd wrote: post #126
narrator wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you check if they have The Transgender-Industrial Complex [1]? It's one of the few books Amazon refuses to sell. You can only get it from the publisher or Barnes and Nobles. [1] https://antelopehillpublishing.com/product/the-transgender-i...

I checked three libraries. The New York Public Library, the Free Library of Philadelphia, and the Seattle Public Library. None have it.

[deleted]

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#166

Post by popcube »

wfleming wrote: post #64
ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

The Turner Diaries is, I think, a poor choice of litmus test for this. It was never picked up by a major publisher, and was basically always self-published as far as I know. Wikipedia gives an estimate of 200k-500k copies sold, total, since 1978: that’s not a lot! Libraries do have to make curatorial choices about what to stock, both physically and digitally. So it’s not surprising a lot of libraries don’t stock a bo…

I almost was convinced by this point, but I guess we can find Mein Kampf in library

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#167

Post by chiefalchemist »

throwaway981572 wrote: post #161
chiefalchemist wrote: post #137

Not to get off topic but what seems to be lost in the HN discussion is that this is a coastal public library offering books to teens that are banned in their local school. It's not about all banned books. There's also the dynamic of a (left leaning?) coastal entity overriding right-leaning communities. This might play well in Brookyln, but it's also powerful political fodder for the more conservative areas being over…

In what sense is BPL “over-riding” these communities? I thought they decided not to carry these books in their school libraries, not that students are not allowed to read them even outside of school.

In what sense? The fact that you can't see it from the others' POV is one of key reasons there's so much divisiveness.

I'm not critiquing what you believe. Unfortunately, it's incomplete. You're focused on what the library is "saying" and haven't considered what's being heard elsewhere. You can continue to disagree. But blind dismissal isn't helping.

And herein lies the problem.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#168

Post by m1gu3l »

Tao331 wrote: post #98
thaumasiotes wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Similarly, if this article were published by a neo-Nazi institute of religious fundamentalism, I wouldn't be asking them "How about the Turner Diaries?" They would absolutely host that book and complain about it being banned. I'd ask them "How about the 1619 Project?" A complication that the 1619 Project brings up is that there are different actions which might reasonably fall under the heading of "banning". For ex…

> Elie Wiesel's Night I read that during my junior year in high school. It was the last straw that launched me into a depressive episode that wrecked my grades for the year that mattered most on college applications and I barely missed having to repeat the year. It's probably not the fault of the book that it was dangerous to me, and if not Night , something else probably would have done it. I don't think censorship…

I remember reading the first chapter and just writing the shortest possible essay i could based on that chapter reading and some janky synopsis I found online. Just couldn’t read that one at 16. I did read Man’s search for meaning (Viktor Frankl) in my late twenties and enjoyed it so maybe I should go back and give night another try now that I feel less depressed.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#169

Post by robonerd »

HWR_14 wrote: post #163
mardifoufs wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but what russian books are banned on libgen? Because otherwise this is just such a weird conspiracy. The russian government is funding niche fringe books on a niche website to divide Americans? But also not censoring anything that would hurt their own cabale?

My point was more "of the books that would be banned, these are not the right type of books." I don't speak Russian, but I would doubt they have anti-Putin books in Russian or in English. That seems bad for the curators health.

Libgen absolutely does have anti-Putin books in English. But I don't know about Russian.

For instance, I found:

Blowing Up Russia: The Secret Plot to Bring Back KGB Terror by Alexander Litvinenko (the guy Putin murdered with Polonium)

Winter Is Coming: Why Vladimir Putin and the Enemies of the Free World Must Be Stopped by Garry Kasparov

Freezing Order : A True Story of Money Laundering, Murder, and Surviving Vladimir Putin's Wrath by Bill Browder

Putin's labyrinth: spies, murder, and the dark heart of the new Russia by Steve Levine

Mr. Putin by Fiona Hill

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#170

Post by stolenmerch »

jeffbee wrote: post #164
stolenmerch wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd start with #2 on the list, Captain Underpants. It got banned in many libraries due to supposedly "racist" imagery. [1] [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-race-captain-underpan...

Eh, that's not why Captain Underpants is banned, though. Captain Underpants is banned because of these reasons. https://www.businessinsider.com/why-captain-underpants-is-th...

Nope. It was removed from libraries and book stores because some people were offended by the images in the books.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-56577725

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