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Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

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Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#71

Post by chernevik »

klyrs wrote: post #56
HelixEndeavor wrote: post #28

One of the books specifically cited is The 1619 Project, which if I am not mistaken was widely criticized even by professors for being a narrowsighted and completely ahistorical look at slavery in America.

In quite a few of the critiques I've read, it's described as a valuable perspective despite the ahistorical bits -- some of which have been corrected. Should the entire project be censored?

It's utter nonsense that hasn't corrected its widely documented errors and omissions. Those "ahistorical bits" include a claim that preservation of slavery was a motivator of the American Revolution. And it is surely odd that an account of American race relations somehow neglects to mention the Civil War.

The book shouldn't be censored, but it isn't "history" any more than intelligent design is "science".

I suppose a public library maybe should have it, but it belongs on a shelf with the "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", the works of Lysenko and the tracts of the Flat Earth Society.

It doesn't belong within a hundred yards of a school.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#72

Post by Tao331 »

CPLX wrote: post #42
ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

But is it a book with literary value? There’s a lot of books in the world, why do you feel this one is essential for a library to stock?

It seems to have had a big cultural impact.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#73

Post by akira2501 »

slg wrote: post #44
dontcare007 wrote: post #34

Where banned=not paid for with public funds. Words have meanings. The books are still available, just not in schools.

I think this is being disingenuous because a library deciding not to buy a book is different than the executive or legislature saying that the library cannot buy a book. You are implying what is happening across the country in conservative states is the former when it is more often the latter. Choice is being removed from the people who run the libraries. They are the people who best know what books their communities…

From what I can tell, all the books listed as banned by the "Central York" district of Pennsylvania have been reinstated, along with most of the bans from the "North East" district of Texas... which significantly reduces the size of their list.

Their methodology wasn't all that great either:

"We define a school book ban as any action taken against a book based on its content and as a result of parent or community challenges, administrative decisions, or in response to direct or threatened action by lawmakers or other governmental officials, that leads to a previously accessible book being either completely removed from availability to students, or where access to a book is restricted or diminished.

PEN America analyzed all relevant news stories on challenges, restrictions, and bans to school library books, curriculum, and classroom libraries anywhere in the United States, over a nine-month period. We consulted school district websites, corresponded with librarians, authors, and teachers, and reviewed letters to school districts organized by the National Coalition Against Censorship (NCAC). We confined entries in the Index to actions that resulted in removals or restrictions of books of any kind for at least a period of one day."

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#74

Post by jleyank »

jleyank wrote: post #3

There’s a difference between something being paywalled snd something being hidden for being politically or socially uncomfortable. Tell people to look for the latter and understand why it’s banned.

“Don't criticize, they're old and wise Do as they tell you to Don't want the devil to Come out and put your eyes.”

Supertramp. Lots of sheep out today downgrading people who stop and think.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#75

Post by jasonlotito »

ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

And your qualifications to make this call as opposed to a professional like a librarian are?

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#76

Post by WalterBright »

This is only about books banned from some public school libraries. Not books banned in the US.

The fundamental issue is, public schools are run by the government. Hence, the government makes the decision about what is to be taught, and how it is taught. The government schools cannot allow any teacher to teach whatever they feel like teaching. No school can work that way, unless it is a one person private school.

For example, public schools cannot teach creationism. Nor can they teach religion. Nor can they teach eugenics. Because the government decided what the curriculum would be.

It's not a free speech issue.

Now, if a non-government library decided to make these books available, and the government tried to stop it, that would be a free speech issue.

Also, if a private school made these books available in its school library, and the government tried to stop it, that would also be a free speech issue.

Note that many private schools teach creationism. It's their right to.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#77

Post by temp8964 »

slg wrote: post #67
temp8964 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public school library != public library

Can you clarify what you are trying to say with this comment? This distinction has no bearing on what I said. The same concept applies to both equally regardless of the current political battle being specifically about school libraries.

They are the same just because you say so?

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#78

Post by PolygonSheep »

slg wrote: post #60
ALittleLight wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Literary value" is a hard thing to define. It's a famous book that has inspired (negative) real world events. It has comparable Google search traffic to "The Black Flamingo", one of the books listed in the article as being available, despite being written in 1978. It captures the thinking of an under represented group of people - by which I mean white supremacists, not the kind of "white supremacists" who think affi…

>"Literary value" is a hard thing to define. Which is why it should be decided by the people who run the libraries and not politicians. That is the difference between banning a book and a library choosing not to buy a book. Is the Turner Diaries banned or have libraries simply decided not to buy a copy?

Couldn't much the same thing be said about Florida schools "banning" books with so-called "critical race theory" and/or LGBTQ themes?

Students aren't going to get expelled for reading these books. Their parents aren't going to be criminally charged for buying them for their kids to take to school and read. Everyone in Florida is welcome to buy as many copies of these "banned" books as they want. The schools in Florida have just chosen not to buy some books they feel didn't have educational value. So what's all the fuss about?

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#79

Post by narrator »

Adraghast wrote: post #19
funstuff007 wrote: post #4

And maybe in Texas they will offer to loan books to Park Slope children the Park Slope progressives find objectionable.

I just checked the NYPL catalog and found The Turner Diaries , Camp of the Saints and Mein Kampf to be available. Just three examples, but I find it hard to imagine what else they’d refuse to carry if those are fine. Is there a particular book you have in mind that “Park Slope progressives” would find too objectionable for libraries to loan out?

Can you check if they have The Transgender-Industrial Complex[1]? It's one of the few books Amazon refuses to sell. You can only get it from the publisher or Barnes and Nobles.

[1]https://antelopehillpublishing.com/product/the-transgender-i...

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#80

Post by abnry »

jasonlotito wrote: post #75
ALittleLight wrote: post #39

I like to use "The Turner Diaries" as a kind of litmus test for people who don't want to ban books. I notice that, while all of the books this article calls out specifically are available at the Brooklyn Public Library - per their online catalog, "The Turner Diaries" is not and neither are any books by its author - either his real name or pseudonym. The Turner Diaries, for reference, is a white supremacist novel that…

And your qualifications to make this call as opposed to a professional like a librarian are?

It is obviously not an "expert" issue, but a values issue, which anyone is able to argue.

In fact, this common equivocation of "expert knowledge" with "value judgments" is a scourge on our modern discourse.

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