Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S • Hacker News Board

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#121

Post by robonerd » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:13 PM UTC

sangnoir wrote: post #108

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Archive.org has OpenLibrary.org as a sibling organisation. It's a "proper" library so you can check things out. I'm not sure exactly how it works, in legal terms, but it's great for obscure books. It also has Diary of a Wimpy Kid available to borrow digitally: https://openlibrary.org/works/OL8483260W/Diary_of_a_Wimpy_Ki...

> I'm not sure exactly how it works, in legal terms, but it's great for obscure books. Does it pay the rights holders (and authors) like other libraries? The Brooklyn library likely does. IIRC, archive.org clashed with authors during lockdown around it’s lending practices, I don’t know if that has been resolved. I’m against excessive IP exploitation, but I’m for authors getting paid.

Libraries don't necessarily pay rights holders or authors. They buy books like anybody else, which means they sometimes buy books on the second hand market. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#122

Post by stakkur » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:14 PM UTC

So does almost every bookstore and library across the country. This is a bit of a tempest in a teacup, taking school board shenanigans in various local areas and making it sound like broad swaths of Americans “can’t access books”.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#123

Post by spicymaki » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:15 PM UTC

llanowarelves wrote: post #106

stolenmerch wrote: post #48

I think this project is great and I fully support it. However, it's only a list of books challenged by mostly christian conservatives dealing with race and gender. Left-leaning progressives challenge books ALL the time. This is bristling to hear, but it's true. Books that are deemed to contain racist or sexist words or images are challenged every year. Huckleberry Finn, Dr. Seuss books, books about Christopher Columb…

It's called Repressive Tolerance: good when they do it, bad when you do it.

So you would rather support racist and sexist books than books about the LGBT written by people of color? I am not sure of your position.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#124

Post by pksebben » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:18 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #76

This is only about books banned from some public school libraries. Not books banned in the US. The fundamental issue is, public schools are run by the government. Hence, the government makes the decision about what is to be taught, and how it is taught. The government schools cannot allow any teacher to teach whatever they feel like teaching. No school can work that way, unless it is a one person private school. For…

So, these libraries should then also avoid stocking things like the bible, in your opinion. Do I have that right?

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#125

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:23 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #76

This is only about books banned from some public school libraries. Not books banned in the US. The fundamental issue is, public schools are run by the government. Hence, the government makes the decision about what is to be taught, and how it is taught. The government schools cannot allow any teacher to teach whatever they feel like teaching. No school can work that way, unless it is a one person private school. For…

There's always going to be a fundamental tension between a publicly funded school and the ideals of a free society. The school will have 51% of the people deciding on what notions are taught, and the other 49% are forced to pay for it.

While that tension will always be there, the public schools should try to minimize teaching political opinions and stick to teaching skills like readin ritin and rithmetic.

History, too, although sadly history is very much politicized. I don't see a solution.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#126

Post by robonerd » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:24 PM UTC

narrator wrote: post #79

Adraghast wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just checked the NYPL catalog and found The Turner Diaries , Camp of the Saints and Mein Kampf to be available. Just three examples, but I find it hard to imagine what else they’d refuse to carry if those are fine. Is there a particular book you have in mind that “Park Slope progressives” would find too objectionable for libraries to loan out?

Can you check if they have The Transgender-Industrial Complex [1]? It's one of the few books Amazon refuses to sell. You can only get it from the publisher or Barnes and Nobles. [1] https://antelopehillpublishing.com/product/the-transgender-i...

I checked three libraries. The New York Public Library, the Free Library of Philadelphia, and the Seattle Public Library. None have it.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#127

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:24 PM UTC

pksebben wrote: post #124

WalterBright wrote: post #76

This is only about books banned from some public school libraries. Not books banned in the US. The fundamental issue is, public schools are run by the government. Hence, the government makes the decision about what is to be taught, and how it is taught. The government schools cannot allow any teacher to teach whatever they feel like teaching. No school can work that way, unless it is a one person private school. For…

So, these libraries should then also avoid stocking things like the bible, in your opinion. Do I have that right?

I didn't suggest they avoid stocking anything. I said the government gets to decide what goes into the government school library.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#128

Post by standardUser » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:29 PM UTC

Tao331 wrote: post #109

bmacho wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reason I like to use this as a litmus test is that people often say something like "I'm against banning books" but what they mean is "I am for things I like". I am positive that 98%+ of people that state the former mean the former.

I'm positive that most people who mean the former will backpedal, provide conditions and loopholes, or become outright angry and start calling you a nazi if you make them actually think about it.

Sounds like you spend a lot of time arguing online. That's bound to give you a horribly skewed view of "most people".

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#129

Post by llanowarelves » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

spicymaki wrote: post #123

llanowarelves wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called Repressive Tolerance: good when they do it, bad when you do it.

So you would rather support racist and sexist books than books about the LGBT written by people of color? I am not sure of your position.

Nice strawman.

Repressive Tolerance defined by Herbert Marcuse is tolerating or looking the other way when left-wing commits violence, banning, etc. But hyper-responding (repressing) right wingers doing even a fraction of the same as them.

If you define the other side as oppressors before they label you oppressors, you are morally allowed to oppress them, in the name of "tolerance".

Normal people would say it's wrong when anyone or "any side" does it.

Re: Brooklyn Public Library offers access to banned ebooks to teens across the U.S

#130

Post by pksebben » Sat, Apr 23, 2022, 7:38 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #107

kibwen wrote: post #17

"Over 1,145 unique books were targeted between July and March, with 874 different authors, 198 illustrators, and 9 translators impacted. The index of the book challenges in this 8 month window include 1,586 book bans in 86 school districts in 26 states. These districts represent 2,899 schools with a combined enrollment of over 2 million students." "Texas led the country with the most bans at 713, followed by Pennsylv…

Would anyone care to elaborate on why they downvoted a relevant passage from a link in the OP?

I've had a suspicion, and it's only a suspicion, that since sometime around the pandemic there's been an effort to astroturf HN. There was such a dramatic shift in what content bubbled to the top - I recall that arguing and dissonance used to be down here, in the footer, but now it seems like not only are there way more political posts on the front page, they all seem to have the most vitriol at the top.

All the evidence I have for this is anecdotal. To put on the tinfoil hat, knowing that there are firms for hire dedicated to pushing agendas, and that they use tactics like astroturfing, and seeing the monumental shift of HN away from primarily tech-focused stuff all adds up to... something. It's likely that my choice of a potential bad actor is rooted in my own biases - but it's hard to ignore outright that what was once a fairly fertile ground for legitimate and reasonable debate / discussion, has been so beleaguered with whataboutism and conversational tactics that are obviously meant to stifle actual discourse.

To wit, something this plain and factual might be just the kind of thing that focuses a conversation and allows talk about the details in a way that a PR firm might want to avoid. if I were a social media manager with no morals I might point my handful of accounts at downvoting stuff like this. Can't think of any other reason to do it, really.