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My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

michael.stapelberg.ch

131–140 of 522 posts

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#131

On behalf of all tech-minded Americans, I would like to say... I hate you. I just got a notice in the mail that my ISP is "upgrading" their network so now I can pay $200 USD/month to get a whopping 2gbps, which I actually thought was pretty amazing until I read your post. So, thanks. In all seriousness, congrats! You made a good case for why one would need that much bandwidth. Also, we need to catch up here. :)

On the other hand, try making 10-15k/month in europe in a regular tech job, esp. with little experience (0-3yr).

It's orders of magnitude more uncommon than doing so in the USA.

So bring all the hate :)

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#132
post #97

No %#*^ing way is he saturating a 25gbit connection to download a PS5 game — not on Sony’s EMEA servers anyway. He’d download the largest PS5 game out there (Borderlands at 50GB) in a minute anyway — probably before he could reach the full 25gbit. On a gigabit connection, he could download Borderlands in under 7 minutes. If that’s too long too wait, then having a faster connection isn’t this guy’s problem. The only u…

The PS5 only has a 1gig Ethernet port anyway.

AT&T fiber recently rolled out 5 gigs in San Francisco and as far as I can tell, Steam is the only service that can saturate it. That’s after buying a 10 gig $100 network card and a $200 router which only has 2 10 gig ports.

It’s going to be a few years before >1 gig internet is commonly supported.

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#133
post #80

Stupid question, but if your hard drive cannot write 25Gbit/s , how is it handled? I don't knwo anything about SSD so maybe 25Gbit/s is easily achievable, just talking from my experience of copying from a USB Drive to my local disk.

I’ve had great results sticking a single Optane NVME drive in front of my 8x8GB array of spinning rust via ZFS’s built-in cache facility. I’m only doing write caching and only using 32GiB of my much larger drive (I forget exactly how large lol). That was my comfort zone for how much data I’m willing to lose if something very bad happens to the NAS during a write, and I like giving it a bunch of spare flash space for wear-leveling.

https://www.servethehome.com/exploring-best-zfs-zil-slog-ssd... is several years old but still a good read.

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#134
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate asymmetric connections. You get gigabit download but something stupid like 20-100 Mbps upload? Just why... Upload speed matters just as much as download these days.

Because you have a single copper pair/coax cable with a finite bandwidth on it, and making a choice about how to split it. Eg, your tech and cable can support 40 Mbps. If you split that 20/20, your users will have trouble watching 4K video that wants 25 Mbps. Change that to 35/5, and for most people it'll actually work better. This issue goes away eventually as you either get a fiber for each direction, or you can ju…

Why isn't the splitting dynamic, according to need?

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#135
post #78
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think beyond 1gbit, the benefit become super marginal and the hardware expensive Is it expensive though? We spend how much of our lives online. How much do you think this all-spanning life upgrade costs? What is the price of never ever dealing with buffer-bloat? Take a guess. I calculate it as a one time $356 cost plus labor. You might have paid more for your wifi system. 128 port 25gbe switches are around $20k (…

It sounds like you're just taking about cost for the ISP to upgrade. To actually realize your faster speeds, you need to spend thousands of dollars yourself on new switches and NICs. And then, as mentioned, the benefits are marginal. You would have to be streaming 10+ 4K movies at once to even "need" gigabit, let alone 25Gbps.

Wifi 7 is expected to be capable of 30-40Gbps. A dual port nic can be had under $200. Currently low/medium port count equipment has no demand, but perhaps the wifi7 world or pressure like init7 generates can make more visible & obvious the market demand. For anyone setting up today, do what I did: (used byt plentifully available) 18 port 40Gbps infiniband switch for $150, nics for $100.

I semi agree that I dont think we know what this is for. Never ever having buffer bloat is a tempting first ask. Connectivity is more than the sum of throughputs, as your figures imply- there's questions of availability too.

Being able to access each other's systems at near local speeds sounds quite compelling, could help jumpstart post-Big Social computing. You talk about netflix streams, but those are heavily compressed with the best offline encoding on the planet: if i just want to open Steam Remote Play Together & share realtime 4K with a friend, I'd need a lot more throughput since I have much much much less efficiemt encoding. If i wanted Remote Play Together with 3 friends, well, that figures goes up. If my family member also wants to do the same, now we're using a lot or maybe all the throughput & we're starting to have some contested bandwidth, some rising latencies.

The truth is somewhere between. Rationalizing ourselves down to what sounds sensible today, to me, is a cruel trick, is not just path dependency but an ideology that believes only in what we have & can see now, & refuses exploration & trying. To me the world & tech is spiritually fueled by why not thinking, by deciding to opt for the extra thats within reach.

Forgoing a cheap (still less than the price of a nice tv, by far), available one-time purchase option that vaults us into near-local connevtivity caliber with the world is still a lock in my book.

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA requires more raw materials to provide services. United States is about 19 times bigger than Thailand. Thailand is approximately 513,120 sq km, while United States is approximately 9,833,517 sq km, making United States 1,816% larger than Thailand. And then there is the duopoly of ISPs where they carve out huge chunks and agree not to compete.

I live in a metro area in the US and thousands of homes in my community do not have land-based broadband options. The US incumbents have totally failed and it isn't because there's a lot of desert in the West and Alaska. I'm sick of this argument which doesn't explain why city dwellers in most places in America have the worst internet in the developed world.

Yup, I live in San Francisco proper, and my only choice is Comcast cable. Looks like the current promo pricing for 1200Mbps is around $70/mo, but I can't quickly find what the normal price is. And I assume the uplink is something abysmal like 25Mbps.

(I'm on Comcast's Business service, $250/mo for 1000/35 [long dumb story why]. Most of the time I see under 600 down when checking on speed test sites, and real-world speeds downloading large files rarely exceeds 250. I expect real-world speeds on the non-business service are even worse.)

It's pretty embarrassing that this is the state of things.

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#137
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Borderlands at 50GB isn't the largest PS5 game. I don't know what is but Horizon Forbidden West was ~90GB.

The last spiderman was something around 200gb, and I think call of duty is even larger, but i don't play that. Their point still stands though: the download servers bandwidth usually throttles below gigabit, so it's gonna be hard to saturate that line today

> The last spiderman was something around 200gb

That is not true at all? Spider man was like 70gb , miles morales was like 40gb

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#138
With a simple and lean signaling p2p protocol, with sufficient nodes at that speed (and support of diffserv), popular live streamers with a few thousands of viewers could part from twitch/youtube and similar.

For broadcast, namely the scale above (for instance a public TV channel), if I recall properly, IPv6 has many broadcast IPs... just need the IAPs of a "telecommunication zone" (state, country, etc) to manage to work together at that level. I think IPv6 multicast is "too much" for IAPs to handle though (the whole "subscription"/"unsubscription" propagation for domestic users, not limited to CDNs only).

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#139
Cool read !

Moved into a new apartment which (unbeknownst to me at first) also has the capability of 25 Gbps with init7, unfortunately that was before getting a locked-in into a 1 (or is it 2?) year contract with my current provider (1000/100 Mbps, so I can’t really complain). Looking forward to having that contract expire and upgrading though, but then the issue is going to be how to distribute all that bandwidth properly over the house (most devices I use are still 1 Gbps OOTB) :).

Re: My upgrade to 25 Gbit/s Fiber To The Home

#140
post #78
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think beyond 1gbit, the benefit become super marginal and the hardware expensive Is it expensive though? We spend how much of our lives online. How much do you think this all-spanning life upgrade costs? What is the price of never ever dealing with buffer-bloat? Take a guess. I calculate it as a one time $356 cost plus labor. You might have paid more for your wifi system. 128 port 25gbe switches are around $20k (…

It sounds like you're just taking about cost for the ISP to upgrade. To actually realize your faster speeds, you need to spend thousands of dollars yourself on new switches and NICs. And then, as mentioned, the benefits are marginal. You would have to be streaming 10+ 4K movies at once to even "need" gigabit, let alone 25Gbps.

A router with a 25G uplink and a bunch of 10G sfp slots will set you back $600

There's benefits to 25G (certainly when transporting 4K video around which needs more than a 10G nic), whether that's worthwhile for a typical home is likely "no", so unless you've got hundereds of employees in an office it doesn't feel very useful.

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