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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#431

Post by daenz »

actuator wrote: post #282
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

Sadly this battle is lost. I understand affirmative action and the need to do it if there has been some systematic bias preventing outcomes but this has become such a touchy topic that how it is done is not debatable lest you be seen sexist. I have sat in hiring debriefs where the criterias used for selection have been very subjective but no one will want to acknowledge that they are trying to do positive bias to do…

After conducting an interview, before I had a chance to write my review (which was customary, while it was fresh), I was sat down by someone more senior than me who said, explicitly "we are hiring this person." There was a "wink wink" dynamic to it. This person was pretty inexperienced, but a woman. This never happened with any of the male candidates. We hired her.

Unrelated, it turned out to be a horrible fit for her, because she went way out on a limb to move to the area and take the job, and the company shut down a few months later. She was now in an expensive city with no contacts or prospects.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#432

Post by rdl »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Most of the age discrimination I've ever seen has been anti-Boomerism, not specific fixed ages. i.e. it was "people over 30-40" 20 years ago, and now is basically mainly against people in their 60s+. I've never (as far as I can tell) experienced age discrimination, and I'm >40 now. There may be passive age discrimination (incompatible schedules for people with families, etc.), but most of the companies I've interacted with have been explicitly pro-family which goes against thag.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#433

Post by treeman79 »

t0mas88 wrote: post #382
fallingknife wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'll be voting Republican

I'm not American, so I'm not as deep into the exact political party differences, but why do you think that's the solution?

Republicans believe men should not compete in woman’s sports.

That woman have babies.

How either of those are controversial is beyond insane.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#434

Post by qwerpy »

t0mas88 wrote: post #382
fallingknife wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'll be voting Republican

I'm not American, so I'm not as deep into the exact political party differences, but why do you think that's the solution?

I have a similar opinion as the person you replied to. There are many issues that I care about, but this is probably the most important to me because it will affect the educational and career prospects of my children. Unfortunately in this country the only meaningful votes are "blue" or "red", and "blue" is the side that is pushing DEI to the detriment both of my family and (in my opinion) the competitiveness and efficiency of the entire country.

So even though I don't agree with all of the politics of "red", I will vote for them until "blue" stops with DEI.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#435

Post by pvarangot »

fallingknife wrote: post #343
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

This is why I'll be voting Republican

LOL as if politicians are going to solve this. There's already enough laws governing this stuff for companies or groups of people to self govern while having a reasonable DEI policy that doesn't harm anyone. It's a cultural problem and voting for trolls is not going to make it better but worse, as it will elicit a panic reaction on people that hold power and are scared by the trolls spewing vitriol about how everything is wrong with "X".

I don't like government bureaucrats and I don't like paying taxes for stupid bullshit like everyone else but thinking "voting republican" is going to change anything is as deluded as thinking that "voting not republican" is going to save us from the end of the world.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#436

Post by [deleted] »

jleyank wrote: post #213

If somebody was really good and presented themselves well, why the hell would they want to sling code for somebody else when they could go into finance or medicine? Yeah, being a tech founder can be amazingly lucrative but for anything else the non-tech roles are better respected and paid quite well. Think of a good quant or surgeon.

[deleted]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#437

Post by TulliusCicero »

jimbokun wrote: post #389
geraldwhen wrote: post #299

My company presented a DEI slide a couple years ago showing black employees on the rise, and white on the decline, with targets of 35% black employees by 2025. We also have intern roles that specifically require you be black, or lgtbq. It’s wild. I looked into what it would take to report the job postings, but from what I can tell you need to be discriminated against personally to make any claims.

35% is almost 3x the share of black people in the US population (assuming you are talking about a US company).

The left in the US has a very broken mentality when it comes to this. How it is:

*Sees picture of company that's 50% white and 50% black*

"Wow! How diverse!"

*See picture of company that's 50% white and 50% Asian*

"My god, it's nothing but white people!"

You might think I'm exaggerating, but I'm not. I've seen plenty of articles from mainstream tech blogs and the like talking about how very white tech companies are, even though they're actually less white than the US population as a whole. The articles often do their best to ignore the Asian population present.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#438

Post by csa »

mikepurvis wrote: post #102
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more. So like, seeing that type of application is in an indication that the person's first twenty years of career haven't yielded the kinds of achievements and contact network that have bumped them out of the hustle and into the world where they no longer be…

> It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more.

I think that is an assumption made by people who have had a single smooth career trajectory, but it often does not hold water.

Making a career change in your 30s or 40s is a thing. Honestly, I think it’s one aspect of the US that makes the economy robust and resilient.

Having made a bad career choice (e.g., former employer) is also a thing. I know that there is one place a friend of mine worked at that was basically a real-life Dilbert documentary. The specific work she did was right up her alley, but the organization was just an absolute train wreck. The few good people (including her) in that org left as quickly as they professionally could. Sadly, that was her second bum employer in a row, so all of her previous work contacts were not recent.

I wish more people would be open-minded to these possibilities.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#439

Post by BitwiseFool »

ponow wrote: post #423
BitwiseFool wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The challenge I have with this is that performance in "the market" does not correlate so easily with the kind of team composition the GP is talking about. And as someone who has worked for large corporations, these companies rarely seem to suffer that much from dysfunctional teams and rotten eggs in key places. >"The only sustainable way forward is to let reality teach them. If we try to impose change like this, it'l…

> The challenge I have with this is that performance in "the market" does not correlate so easily with the kind of team composition But clearly, hiring nominally asserts that it seeks the strongest applications. So it's contradicting itself with DEI discrimination.

Somewhat, I have experience working with HR and recruiters and from what I've encountered filling a position is a lot more about finally finding someone sufficient rather than someone exceptional. This is not to say that employers don't look for the best and the brightest, but rather, they often settle for the first few acceptable candidates because to hold out for an even better applicant has tangible costs for the business and is often not worth it.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#440

Post by brightball »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Second this. I helped a guy get into a programming career in his mid-50s. He was/is really sharp but it took forever for somebody to give him an opportunity. He shined when he finally got it but there was a real struggle.
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