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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#381

Post by i_like_waiting »

pc86 wrote: post #311
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were a senior manager and I heard that coming from you, you'd hit the unemployment turnstile faster than you could blink. You're being paid to determine whether they can do the job well and are a good team fit. If you don't understand that, then you aren't capable of conducting a quality interview, and you shouldn't be in that position at all.

What do you expect from someone who wonders if old people are teachable?

I know some of them are, but I seriously wonder for people who spend considerably long time in exactly same position with regular job hopping

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#382

Post by t0mas88 »

fallingknife wrote: post #343
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

This is why I'll be voting Republican

I'm not American, so I'm not as deep into the exact political party differences, but why do you think that's the solution?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#383

Post by nitwit005 »

maire wrote: post #103

In the US, male nurses are highly valued. I am not sure why this is not so in Sweden. On the other hand, people are wary of male preschool teachers. These two fields seem to be equivalent in Sweden. In the US - Cleaners are not well paid. I am not sure why men want to join this field. The best cleaner I ever had left as soon as she landed a better paying job. I see plenty of husband and wife teams where the wife does…

> In the US - Cleaners are not well paid. I am not sure why men want to join this field.

There are some well compensated cleaning jobs in some (definitely not all) hospitals and schools.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#384

Post by FFRefresh »

georgeburdell wrote: post #209
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

> During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. At my work recently, we interviewed a white male and an asian female for the job. To my knowledge, this is the first female applicant we've gotten because they generally get snapped up by higher prestige/visibility roles. I've interviewed many people before, and the manager will request feedback about the applicants and use whichever had…

I've also seen similar behavior on interview loops. I also would love for there to be fear of engaging in illegal discriminatory behavior for companies.

However, as an individual person, the cost/benefit equation on whistleblowing just seems so so bad. It just doesn't seem worth it as an individual. If these illegal things are going to be pushed back against, it seems like it'll need to be a coordinated/collective action.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#385

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

kenjackson wrote: post #373
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

I think DEI efforts can greatly vary. I know that we've worked really hard to ensure that we don't disadvantage anyone -- but it's harder than it sounds. DEI is often dealing in zero sum spaces. For example, most of the staff is white males. We try hard to hire the best person for the role, but we've instituted a policy where we mandate interviewing underrepresented groups. Not that we will hire them, but that we wil…

> But because of this the interview process can get lengthy and white male candidates maybe tire of waiting and go elsewhere. So in some sense its not fair to the white male.

Isn't it equally obnoxious to everyone? I'm not sure why only the white males would be put out by the wait. The wait, while due to the lengthy interview process, isn't due to them being white males. Unless you interview the white males first for some reason.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#386

Post by peoplefromibiza »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #293
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

> DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. That's a feature, not a bug. As Ibram X Kendi says, "the only remedy to past discrimination, is present discrimination".

> "the only remedy to past discrimination, is present discrimination"

this is probably the dumbest sentence I have ever read in my life.

Is present slavery the only remedy to past slavery?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#387

Post by throwaway894345 »

robonerd wrote: post #310
throwaway894345 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These politics only appeal to ~10% of the population anyway, and they aren't favored by a majority of any ethnicity. This stuff isn't mainstream because voters like it (which is why it never makes its way into any real laws), it's mainstream because the cultural and media elites like it and they don't have to trifle with a democratic process to impose it. Corporate DEI stuff is also useful to "prove" that an employer…

Corporate DEI has laws backing it, but I don't think that's the full picture. Corporations have a genuine economic interest in diverse hiring even if those laws didn't exist: 1) Diverse hiring expands the labor pool, which suppresses wages. 2) Diverse labor organizes less effectively, particularly if the workers can be kept on edge around each other.

I don't doubt that it's not the full picture, but I'm skeptical about your theory. My $0.02:

Regarding (1), it only expands the labor pool if the pipeline for "diverse" labor hasn't already been exhausted. Instead we seem to see employers competing for "diverse" labor, including in some cases foregoing technical qualifications for "diverse" qualifications. This is only in the company's best interest to the extent that it's economically advantageous to appear to be striving for diversity.

Regarding (2), I really don't think most companies are to the point where they're deliberately stoking racial division as an anti-union tactic, at least not in the FAANG space. Seems like it would be a lot easier to push the political divide button which is pre-primed on account of the media.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#388

Post by pc86 »

smugma wrote: post #341
bendbro wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently made a move from Seattle to Dallas. While in Seattle I was consumed by the thought that all of American academia, business, and media was consumed by idpol and other associated confusions. In Seattle, every interaction is permeated by conversations about identity, and friend groups are highly segregated by class, if not race. Moving to Dallas completely changed my perspective. Dallas is an actual multicult…

From what I've gathered the few times I've been to Seattle, it isn't so much racially segregated as predominantly white. A Black friend of mine moved there to work for Amazon and hated Seattle. Eventually he got the ability to relocate to LA and is much happier now. I was in Austin last weekend and it appeared very diverse; much less segregated than the Bay Area.

I've heard things similar about Seattle specifically that line up with what both you and the parent commenter are saying.

Maybe Seattle just sucks?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#389

Post by jimbokun »

geraldwhen wrote: post #299

My company presented a DEI slide a couple years ago showing black employees on the rise, and white on the decline, with targets of 35% black employees by 2025. We also have intern roles that specifically require you be black, or lgtbq. It’s wild. I looked into what it would take to report the job postings, but from what I can tell you need to be discriminated against personally to make any claims.

35% is almost 3x the share of black people in the US population (assuming you are talking about a US company).

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#390

Post by rayiner »

actuator wrote: post #282
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

Sadly this battle is lost. I understand affirmative action and the need to do it if there has been some systematic bias preventing outcomes but this has become such a touchy topic that how it is done is not debatable lest you be seen sexist. I have sat in hiring debriefs where the criterias used for selection have been very subjective but no one will want to acknowledge that they are trying to do positive bias to do…

I don't think it's "lost." At least with regard to racial preferences in the workplace, they remain unpopular even among the very groups they seek to help: https://www.vox.com/2019/5/9/18538216/diversity-workplace-pe... (Black people oppose "taking race and ethnicity into account ... in order to increase diversity" 54 to 37, and Hispanics oppose it 69 to 27).

Separating people into groups and giving preferences and demerits based on skin color is social engineering mainly being championed by the same people who have always favored social engineering: affluent, college-educated white people. Those folks hold a lot of power in some circles, but are routinely defeated at the ballot box: https://thehill.com/opinion/education/526642-hispanics-shock...

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