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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#361

Post by JacobThreeThree »

jrsj wrote: post #35
throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

If the average person actually knew what these initiatives meant they would be against them. In practice what it does is make it so members of designated groups typically win by default whenever they & other candidates meet minimum requirements for a position. It’s not even good for the people who get promotions faster as a result imo because everyone around them knows things are rigged in their favor. And who has be…

>And who has benefitted?

The rationale being promoted to the corporations by management consultants is that the company will make more money.

>Our latest research finds that companies in the top quartile for gender or racial and ethnic diversity are more likely to have financial returns above their national industry medians.

https://www.mckinsey.com/business-functions/people-and-organ...

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#362

Post by thaumasiotes »

sdsaga12 wrote: post #306
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

Hear hear. If your conception of diversity doesn't include viewpoint diversity, you are operating within a prejudicial, small-minded, small-hearted, and regressive framework. If you belive the most salient details about a person can be read from their appearance, you are a bigot. This cuts every which way, but many want to pretend it's not true for their own biases. This includes seeing someone with blue hair and a p…

> My personal bias here tends toward reflexive dislike of DEI stuff because it feels cult-y to me, but the message of toleration it's rooted in (even if that's not always practiced by its proponents) is obviously the only alternative to fighting over whose values will be imposed on everyone else.

Alternative? The people who promulgate the messages are quite aggressive about imposing their values on everyone else.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#363

Post by jrsj »

bendbro wrote: post #272
jrsj wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn’t take long after Silicon Valley was no longer on the air for the entire industry to become more absurd than its parody. I really don’t think any of this is sustainable either. Latinos in particular seem very opposed to this stuff & given that they are part of the fastest growing demographic in the country I don’t see how political support for policies like this can be maintained.

I recently made a move from Seattle to Dallas. While in Seattle I was consumed by the thought that all of American academia, business, and media was consumed by idpol and other associated confusions. In Seattle, every interaction is permeated by conversations about identity, and friend groups are highly segregated by class, if not race. Moving to Dallas completely changed my perspective. Dallas is an actual multicult…

Had a similar experience visiting Texas and I’m looking forward to moving there myself soon.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#364

Post by anon23anon »

paxys wrote: post #131
gizajob wrote: post #45

In my experience, I've always found it quite strange that HR and recruitment is a field that seems to me to be female dominated, at least in the part of the UK where I am, and I can't help but feel that the imbalance at this level of the process reflects who gets hired.

HR & recruiting are female dominated simply because hiring women in these roles is the easiest way for a company to get their diversity numbers up.

100% this. At my company they created all these product manager type roles and fill them w/ women and minorities and then count them as part of the software engineering team to get their diversity numbers up.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#365

Post by lazide »

smugma wrote: post #330
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I have gotten older, my pay has continued to increase. "Over qualified" means that I want too much money . (I don't apologize for that. I bring more value than I did 20 years ago. Either you have a use for that - enough of a use that you're willing to pay for it - or you don't.) Also, if you've got someone with 20 years experience, and they're willing to accept the same pay as someone with 5 years experience... ar…

BC (Before COVID), I was having trouble finding a qualified person for a role on my team (Operations, not Engineering). I was getting a lot of candidates apply that looked the same on paper but weren't good fits (they claimed to be technical but weren't that technical, poor communication skills, etc.). So I went in the tool and looked through the discard pile and found more diverse candidates that hadn't been present…

Eh, having known some recruiters over the years? A lot of it is definitely not implicit.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#366

Post by hirundo »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Remote work helps a lot in that case. I got my current remote job, which was specifically advertising for young developers, without mentioning my age. They know I'm an old fogey now, but that was after I had proven myself.

Yes, I had to severely abbreviate my resume. But no misinformation passed my lips or fingertips. The insurance paperwork, with age related info, all went through a third party.

And working remotely suits me down to the toes. On the internet nobody has to know you're a dog.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#367

Post by telomero22 »

codelord wrote: post #295

It's interesting to me people make all sort of assertions about why men or women are dominant in an industry without anyway to falsify their hypothesis. I provide some data points having lived in several countries that may offer some insight. Draw your own conclusions. I got my undergrad degree in Iran (a relatively conservative society with an ultra-conservative even anti-women government), where the ratio of women…

It's because in poor and conservative countries women must choose a high paying job if they want to escape oppression and arranged marriage.

However, the more egalitarian and wealthy a country is, the more women are free to choose which job they like most and they are not so interested in Engineering it seems.

EDIT: Ha, looks like this is just a Jordan Peterson false claim. Women seem to be strongly represented in science and engineering in developed countries. https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/women-in-science/

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#368

Post by wardedVibe »

lazide wrote: post #336
torginus wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think due to the massive influx of people into this profession, the median age is still pretty low, but I think this will stabilize, and the age pyramid will look more even. As good, productive people will get older, recruiters will realize that people don't go senile at 40.

Eh, it's been this way since at least the 90's. How long should anyone wait for clearly illegal behavior to start being not ok?

Probably until they routinely get sued for it

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#369

Post by buddhistdude »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #293
JCM9 wrote: post #184

There are very concerning patterns developing at the moment in the DEI space. DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. Spreading selected stereotypes and often solving concerns about “discrimination” by being very biased and inequitable. For example at my last company a report showed that slightly fewer of a certain minority were promoted.…

> DEI efforts, and often those leading them, are increasingly the most biased and close minded parts of the organization. That's a feature, not a bug. As Ibram X Kendi says, "the only remedy to past discrimination, is present discrimination".

That's right, and the only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination x)

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#370

Post by recursive »

forum_ghost wrote: post #345
Manuel_D wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is going to speak up? I've worked in these environments before and it's career suicide to object to DEI discrimination.

Maybe two-party recording laws in California needs to be removed.

Maybe, but they haven't been. That's what matters.
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