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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#31

Post by emaginniss »

Manuel_D wrote: post #29
rmbyrro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, let'em choose to work with whoever they want. If it's all women, so be it. Only men? Whatever. I don't wanna work in either of these organizations. I think the best answer to these divisive, sexist or racist behaviors is to show them in practice they're dumb, kick their ass in the market. An open-minded, welcoming organization is going to attract the best minds. Collectively, these people will kick those ide…

Why can't we legislate away discrimination? Make it illegal, and prosecute the companies that engage in it.

How do you prove it?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#32

Post by stevezsa8 »

_0jki wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

The study proved discrimination based on gender. I would say that being discriminated against is pretty harmful.

I think laws are written something like: "employer cannot discriminate based on a person's gender". Which covers men.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#33

Post by SamReidHughes »

toolz wrote: post #20
lostcolony wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure there are. Just not a blatantly sexist culture -they don't fit into-. There are plenty of male dominated companies, with male dominated recruiting teams, that still hire mostly males. To be clear, I'm not saying it's okay either way, I'm just disagreeing with the idea 'most men' won't participate in such a culture; most men (oftentimes unwittingly) do.

Can you name any of these male dominated companies that hire men disproportionately to the gender demographics of their applicants/interviewees? The issue isn't the distribution of employees, it's whether there is sexism present or not and the first thing you'd probably want for evidence of sexism is disproportionate hiring of a demographic compared to their applicant/interviewee demographic. Just because something i…

No post body was provided.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#34

Post by rmbyrro »

Manuel_D wrote: post #29
rmbyrro wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what, let'em choose to work with whoever they want. If it's all women, so be it. Only men? Whatever. I don't wanna work in either of these organizations. I think the best answer to these divisive, sexist or racist behaviors is to show them in practice they're dumb, kick their ass in the market. An open-minded, welcoming organization is going to attract the best minds. Collectively, these people will kick those ide…

Why can't we legislate away discrimination? Make it illegal, and prosecute the companies that engage in it.

In the public realm, we must legislate equality to all.

But in the private realm, I think it's not sustainable. It's better for us to work hard and make people learn from reality.

These people are extremists. If we try to legislate change in their private realm, they'll get even more extremist internally. They'll crave for a chance of revenge. Even if it takes decades or centuries. It's unsustainable.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#35

Post by jrsj »

throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

If the average person actually knew what these initiatives meant they would be against them. In practice what it does is make it so members of designated groups typically win by default whenever they & other candidates meet minimum requirements for a position. It’s not even good for the people who get promotions faster as a result imo because everyone around them knows things are rigged in their favor.

And who has benefitted? This stuff was supposed to help people that lacked opportunity but for the most part it’s people who were upper middle class (predominately white women) to begin with reaping the benefits & using these policies as a political weapon to get more influence inside companies.

I’m personally hopeful that the upcoming Supreme Court case involving Harvards admission practices also affects the private sector and that these types of policies simply become illegal.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#37

Post by Manuel_D »

emaginniss wrote: post #31
Manuel_D wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we legislate away discrimination? Make it illegal, and prosecute the companies that engage in it.

How do you prove it?

The same way the study did: send identical applications with different genders, and see if there's significant discrepancies.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#38

Post by ZGDUwpqEWpUZ »

Ourgon wrote: post #23
_0jki wrote: post #7

Quoted post unavailable.

Using your own terms of 'marginalised groups' you should actually be fighting for men's rights, not against them as you seem to be doing. Given that the discrimination is especially rampant in female-dominated professions the 'marginalised' group in this case is men , not women. In other words, women in female-dominated professions discriminate against 'marginalised' groups (men) to further increase their domination.

IME the feminist argument seems to be that female-dominated industries are inherently unappealing and oppressive - i.e. that women are effectively forced into low-paid/underappreciated areas of work.

Quite how this squares with desperately redefining words to try to keep men out of those industries, and why men would want to enter them in the first place if they're such terrible jobs, I'm not sure.

They shouldn't need to play games like this if they actually believe what they claim. If anything, men working those jobs should be a benefit to women.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#39

Post by throwaway0wha8h »

Throwaway.

I'm happy to have more women in tech and hope it occurs or continues. However, virtually everyone recruiting in tech has observed some toxic diversity initiatives, I would venture. Some examples I have seen personally or one degree removed from me.

- pressure on HMs to hire more women despite 95% of applicants being male

- people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc.

- people championing all women teams as a win for diversity

- women getting a salary premium to help companies boost DEI "representation"

I think eventually this will be shown for what it is, but it will take a long time. Personally every tech founder I know thinks it's bullshit but won't say it in public.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#40

Post by xienze »

throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

> All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side.

> I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

They were likely thinking of it in terms of “righting wrongs” in the overall sense by increasing the percentage of women in the company.

Publicly, everyone will swear up and down that “diversity” doesn’t mean “fewer whites/men”, but in practice, it’s how those “ideal” demographic ratios are achieved.

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