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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#201

Post by TulliusCicero »

eldaisfish wrote: post #133
FFRefresh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can also attest to this, I just left a pretty well-known tech company who leaned hard into DEI in the wake of the summer 2020 protests. The exec team essentially set up quotas, with every race+gender group getting priority over white males. Execs were given bonuses if they increased the percentage of non-white male employees. The crazy thing was that white males were NOT over-represented in the first place. 2 years…

comparing to the population at large isn't the most valid thing to do. Many fields are dominated by women - nursing to name just one. Even within nursing, there are a lot of latino and phillipino nurses. by your logic, the largest ethnic group of nurses in a country like the US or UK should be white women. There are many more factors at play here.

You misread what they're talking about.

They're saying that nominally, what diversity efforts care about are people being underrepresented relative to the general population. That's the bar they're using, yes, but they didn't choose it.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#202

Post by bagels »

enriquto wrote: post #144
rmbyrro wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not employed. Not shopping for jobs either. By the way, I'm available to assist whoever is a victim of these shitty extremist behavior. And I can do and say whatever I want. Everything I do is my responsibility and my property. Not my employer's, because I chose to not have one.

> I'm not employed. Not shopping for jobs either. Wait, isn't this the exact definition of privilege?

You're imagining wealthy enough not to need to work. There is also homeless.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#203

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

jrsj wrote: post #96
colpabar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sadly this would probably work. Bonus points if you tell people your pronouns are they/them, HR departments really can’t get enough of that.

I would like to push back against this, because They/Them also has plenty of risks that are usually never thought of by people who don’t use they/them or other nonstandard profiles. Many companies, especially startups, don’t have HR departments to begin with. Of those with large HR departments, many don’t have a reputation of not protecting abusers (see: Uber, Google). Most HR software, payrolls, health data, etc also assume M/F sex === he/she pronouns (this problem also happens to people with nonstandard names to some extent). Additionally, there’s no guarantee your co workers will actually use they/them around with you or somehow believe you’re less technical or less skilled purely because of your choice in pronouns.

Overall they/them isn’t really worth progressive points unless you actually are non-binary. But that comes with a lot of bullshit, see above ignorance.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#204

Post by endisneigh »

Manuel_D wrote: post #156
jedimastert wrote: post #50

This comment section is gonna be a RIDE... To actually comment on the topic at hand: the reason there's still male-dominated spaces is that women are weeded out far earlier than the hiring stage. See, for example, statistics about women in STEM and especially computer science and realize that hiring managers don't even have to be sexist for male-dominated fields to exist, even though they still are.

Women's representation in tech matches the graduation rates of relevant fields. Which matches the rates at which women indicate tech as their preferred field in high school and middle school. I think it's in incorrect to say that they're "weeded out". That implies that women are being removed from the field, rather than exercising their own agency and choosing different fields.

Do you have a source for your claims?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#205

Post by rubyist5eva »

anon867 wrote: post #74
rubyist5eva wrote: post #41

At my last company all hands, our CFO was talking about "increasing diversity" at our company. The entire C-Level or our entire company are people of colour. 4 out of 5 department heads are PoC. Customer success team are majority PoC and mostly women. Out of our entire engineering department, there are only 2 "white" people - myself (anglo-Canadian), and another man of Swedish ethnicity..though I suppose all white me…

> Engineering is the only male dominated department, we used to have a few women developers but they left for better opportunities and hiring is currently frozen. Other than C-level, what's the best-paid department/position in a tech company? Food for thought, if you were take the total of money paid to men vs women in your company, and really think hard about it, how would that balance out? Even if you took C-suite,…

> what's the best-paid department/position in a tech company?

In our company specifically: sales. And like every non-engineering department at the company: female dominated.

Also, just a few months ago there was a downsizing of the engineering department in order to stack our sales team. We've also lost 20% of the remaining engineering team since then from attrition/austerity.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#206

Post by jrsj »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #179
jrsj wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly this would probably work. Bonus points if you tell people your pronouns are they/them, HR departments really can’t get enough of that.

My wife works for a company that does tons of business with a FAANG company. They’re putting together a presentation for the client about how diverse they are (“we have all of the sexual identities!”). They also told a Mexican guy he wasn’t diverse enough to give the presentation because he was (1) a man and (2) his accent wasn’t thick enough—it might not be clear that he is “diverse”. It’s over the top even by post-…

It didn’t take long after Silicon Valley was no longer on the air for the entire industry to become more absurd than its parody.

I really don’t think any of this is sustainable either. Latinos in particular seem very opposed to this stuff & given that they are part of the fastest growing demographic in the country I don’t see how political support for policies like this can be maintained.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#207

Post by forty »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

> "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified.

What's the difference between "over qualified" and "more than qualified"? ;)

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#208

Post by t_mann »

duxup wrote: post #79
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

After age 40 I did a coding bootcamp to change careers. Another guy in the camp was doing the same. We compared notes on interviews. One day he gets a call back from a recruiter and he put the recruiter on speaker phone. She told them they liked him but chose someone else because (drum roll) culture fit. He asked what she meant by that and she outright said: "The other person is younger. You're old." We were shocked…

Would be interesting to compare this across areas. My impression is that eg Finance (another popular destination for mid-career switches) is far more open in that regard. Experience, even if it's in a different field (as long as it's a technical role or one that will give you a rich set of contacts) seems to generally confer seniority. Would be interesting if someone could weigh in.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#209

Post by georgeburdell »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

> During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well.

At my work recently, we interviewed a white male and an asian female for the job. To my knowledge, this is the first female applicant we've gotten because they generally get snapped up by higher prestige/visibility roles. I've interviewed many people before, and the manager will request feedback about the applicants and use whichever had the highest score on a rubric. This time, the manager simply asked "please tell me if anyone has an objection to hiring [asian female]". I was shocked at my manager's language, as it implies the default action is to hire rather than to not hire (the latter being typical in companies). The white male was not discussed at all in my presence.

I'm strongly considering tipping off the white male applicant that he was discriminated against and that he may want to consider legal action. This is one of a number of what I consider discriminatory behaviors my employer (large company you've heard of) has displayed. Companies need to be fearful of engaging in all types of discrimination, not just ones that are culturally-sanctioned, and follow the law.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#210

Post by swayvil »

jleyank wrote: post #189
swayvil wrote: post #73

Quoted post unavailable.

Hoo, boy. If true, there must be a staggering shortage of men in the software design biz. At least judging from the stuff I have to deal with. Maybe being an asshole is a Y-linked trait?

I didn't understand that at all. Speak plainly.
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