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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#171

Post by autarch »

koheripbal wrote: post #109
throwaway6734 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Isn't this illegal?

In many states, discrimination laws only apply to "protected classes" , which is strictly defined as specific lists of races/religions/lgbt.. If you are white male, you are often not protected by these laws.

That's not what a protected class is. A protected class is something like "gender", "race", or "religion". It's not "women", "black people", or "Jews".

Discriminating based on gender or race, regardless of the gender or race in question, is illegal in most (probably all) states in the US.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group for a lot more details.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#172

Post by moeris »

koheripbal wrote: post #109
throwaway6734 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>people in interview panels openly saying "but he's a white man" / "do we want to hire more white men" etc. Isn't this illegal?

In many states, discrimination laws only apply to "protected classes" , which is strictly defined as specific lists of races/religions/lgbt.. If you are white male, you are often not protected by these laws.

Incorrect. The protections against employment discrimination by protected category are at the federal level, and are not tied to any specific race/religion/etc.

> Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information.

https://www.eeoc.gov/prohibited-employment-policiespractices....

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#173

Post by lkxijlewlf »

mikepurvis wrote: post #102
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more. So like, seeing that type of application is in an indication that the person's first twenty years of career haven't yielded the kinds of achievements and contact network that have bumped them out of the hustle and into the world where they no longer be…

> It's kind of ageism-adjacent, but I wonder if some of it is a bias that expects that past 40 you shouldn't really be needing to apply to jobs by resume drops any more.

I really wish people would stop this. I don't really keep in touch with many coworkers due to time. My friends tend to come from outside of work and they're not software devs. It definitely is age-ism adjacent; having to "network" to get a job is much harder after you get older.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#174

Post by spzb »

s_tec wrote: post #129
spzb wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

I'm not the OP, but I'll bite. For many species, males have a higher standard deviation across a variety factors. There are biological reasons for this, since males are more disposable than females for reproduction. Think of one rooster for a dozen hens - this is still a viable flock, even if the other roosters get eaten. Nature can experiment more with males simply because the stakes are lower, and sometimes those e…

Intelligence, as measured by IQ tests, exam results etc, is not just a product of genetics.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#175

Post by alistairSH »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #159
colpabar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Get a faux-vintage t-shirt with your favorite mustachioed mass murderer’s face on it.

But we're old enough we don't need the "faux" vintage - we have the real deal (well, not the murderer part, but old concert/band shirts).

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#176

Post by SamReidHughes »

spzb wrote: post #142
SamReidHughes wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women? Uh, yes. This is a well-established fact. Women have two X chromosomes, both of which get used [1], and men only have one. So this should be your baseline expectation. In women, that genetic information used to construct the brain, gets, loosely speaking, averaged together. It is of course also consistent with every empirical observation. E.g.…

Sorry but that's pseudo-scientific bollocks. Far from being "well-established fact" it is actually contentious and poorly supported by the evidence. Intelligence testing is a human created concept. There are all manner of cultural biases encoded in it. Intelligence is more than just being good at sums which is what your math SAT example seems to suggest. Jeopardy champions are hardly a representative group. They're a…

Yeah, Jeopardy could be self-selecting based on a sex-specific mental trait.

But you seem to be ignoring the test scores. Why is that?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#177

Post by vageli »

imiric wrote: post #158
nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

Work remotely and anonymously. Let the quality of your work shine through so that age becomes irrelevant. There aren't many such roles, but with remote work gaining popularity, they're becoming more of an option.

What jobs are hiring individuals anonymously?

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#178

Post by dheera »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

No post body was provided.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#179

Post by throwaway894345 »

jrsj wrote: post #96
colpabar wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Sadly this would probably work. Bonus points if you tell people your pronouns are they/them, HR departments really can’t get enough of that.

My wife works for a company that does tons of business with a FAANG company. They’re putting together a presentation for the client about how diverse they are (“we have all of the sexual identities!”). They also told a Mexican guy he wasn’t diverse enough to give the presentation because he was (1) a man and (2) his accent wasn’t thick enough—it might not be clear that he is “diverse”. It’s over the top even by post-2020 standards.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#180

Post by cto_of_antifa »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #33
toolz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you name any of these male dominated companies that hire men disproportionately to the gender demographics of their applicants/interviewees? The issue isn't the distribution of employees, it's whether there is sexism present or not and the first thing you'd probably want for evidence of sexism is disproportionate hiring of a demographic compared to their applicant/interviewee demographic. Just because something i…

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