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Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

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Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#71

Post by daenz »

jrsj wrote: post #35
throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

If the average person actually knew what these initiatives meant they would be against them. In practice what it does is make it so members of designated groups typically win by default whenever they & other candidates meet minimum requirements for a position. It’s not even good for the people who get promotions faster as a result imo because everyone around them knows things are rigged in their favor. And who has be…

>And who has benefitted

It benefits the people who gain power and status by using virtues as a social weapon.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#72

Post by [deleted] »

Robotbeat wrote: post #56
SamReidHughes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I was willing to listen to your point (that perhaps some companies favor women and so women disproportionately percolate to those companies… at least in theory seems like a possible argument, even if I’m skeptical) until you got here: >> Also, because the intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end, a company will be disproportionately male simply by being more technical and having a more difficult hi…

[deleted]

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#74

Post by anon867 »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #41

At my last company all hands, our CFO was talking about "increasing diversity" at our company. The entire C-Level or our entire company are people of colour. 4 out of 5 department heads are PoC. Customer success team are majority PoC and mostly women. Out of our entire engineering department, there are only 2 "white" people - myself (anglo-Canadian), and another man of Swedish ethnicity..though I suppose all white me…

> Engineering is the only male dominated department, we used to have a few women developers but they left for better opportunities and hiring is currently frozen.

Other than C-level, what's the best-paid department/position in a tech company?

Food for thought, if you were take the total of money paid to men vs women in your company, and really think hard about it, how would that balance out? Even if you took C-suite, really think about the answer

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#75

Post by jrsj »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #53
jrsj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the average person actually knew what these initiatives meant they would be against them. In practice what it does is make it so members of designated groups typically win by default whenever they & other candidates meet minimum requirements for a position. It’s not even good for the people who get promotions faster as a result imo because everyone around them knows things are rigged in their favor. And who has be…

This is why the Civil Rights Act passed when the congressman from Virginia (can't remember the name) tried to kill it by including women in the bill. A law designed to save the endangered black family was instead coopted to boost the career prospects of successful women, so I guess the poison pill worked despite the bill passing.

And still not much is being done to help them in practice. There’s a deep culture of classism in American corporations which these initiatives completely ignore, so the people who really need help and more opportunities don’t get much.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#76

Post by rajin444 »

spzb wrote: post #43
SamReidHughes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> intelligence distribution skews more male at the higher end Really? You think there are inherently more intelligent men than women?

You think it's equal? That seems so statistically unlikely I could only describe it as a miracle.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#77

Post by gedy »

FFRefresh wrote: post #55
throwadogabone2 wrote: post #3

Anecdotally I have seen this in person at a large tech startup. The recruiting team was all women, mainly white, and they were incredibly cliquey. Every hire was a woman. Men were turned down with vague excuses like “not a culture fit.” All while aggressively pushing DEI initiatives and interventions on the tech side. I don’t think the irony of this ever crossed their minds.

I can also attest to this, I just left a pretty well-known tech company who leaned hard into DEI in the wake of the summer 2020 protests. The exec team essentially set up quotas, with every race+gender group getting priority over white males. Execs were given bonuses if they increased the percentage of non-white male employees. The crazy thing was that white males were NOT over-represented in the first place. 2 years…

I think it would be helpful if you name the company. Nothing bad about sharing that info.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#79

Post by duxup »

nabaraz wrote: post #67

During my career, I've seen enough discrimination in the name of DEI as well. But what bothers me more is the ageism. The number of times an old person has been rejected from a job is too damn high. The reasons have always been "he may not work well with young people", "seniority complex", "he is over qualified" etc. Most of the times, they were more than qualified. I fear when I am into 40s or 50s, I will face the s…

After age 40 I did a coding bootcamp to change careers.

Another guy in the camp was doing the same. We compared notes on interviews. One day he gets a call back from a recruiter and he put the recruiter on speaker phone. She told them they liked him but chose someone else because (drum roll) culture fit.

He asked what she meant by that and she outright said: "The other person is younger. You're old." We were shocked and he pretended he didn't quite hear her... she repeated it word for word. I don't think she even realized it was illegal.

The other guy never made a complaint, he needed a job and I could hardly blame him not wanting to put up a fuss / fight over a job at a place he didn't want to be a part of anyway ... it was shocking to hear it made that clear.

Long run we both got jobs and are doing well, but man... that call sticks in the back of my head anytime I think of job hunting.

Re: Hiring discrimination: a problem for men in female-dominated occupations

#80

Post by BlargMcLarg »

jedimastert wrote: post #50

This comment section is gonna be a RIDE... To actually comment on the topic at hand: the reason there's still male-dominated spaces is that women are weeded out far earlier than the hiring stage. See, for example, statistics about women in STEM and especially computer science and realize that hiring managers don't even have to be sexist for male-dominated fields to exist, even though they still are.

>women are weeded out

>especially computer science

By choice or by force? N=1, but I still remember teachers saying "all the girls that should be in CS are going to math instead, they think CS is a boys' club" despite repeatedly catering 'women in tech' and such. According to some anecdotes I heard, this also changes outside Western countries, where women pick CS much more quickly.

>statistics about women in STEM

Actual statistics would show women aren't underrepresented in STEM as a whole, or not nearly as much as people claim. This discussion keeps being raised and they conveniently omit fields which are very much science, and have far more women than men coming in. Medicine, veterinary, agriculture, biological science are all fields women tend to compete or dominate to a certain degree. See https://www.hesa.ac.uk/news/16-01-2020/sb255-higher-educatio....

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