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Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

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Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#41

Post by treeman79 »

imtringued wrote: post #30
epgui wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't give medical advice on the internet, especially without specifying what the advice is for, or without knowing what condition the other person has. It's obviously well intentioned, but incredibly reckless.

It's far more reckless to tell people to do something specific because they supposedly have a very specific disease because it is very easy to misdiagnose symptoms. There are so many symptoms that could either be something harmless (that can be fixed with a diverse non specific diet) or be cancer. If you spend too much time on medical websites trying to self diagnose you are at some point going to convince yourself t…

Your point is valid. I would be dead if I hadn’t spent so much time researching. Doctors constantly dismiss symptoms as anxiety.

At one point I was in ER (second time) gasping for air coughing up blood. Totally chill from all the anxiety meds while Doctor was explaining how it was just muscle strain. He went white when x/ray came back.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#42

Post by itchyouch »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24
epgui wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that diet can have a big impact on inflammation, I would caution against pushing this idea too far in the context of auto-immune diseases. I won't go into the details or talk about any specific condition because it's a complex topic, but you're better off combining a mediterranean / Indian / varied diet (the American diet is notoriously bad) with proper medication as prescribed by your treating physi…

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

If you’re referring to Terry Wahls, years ago, she did mention starting trials for her diet for MS patients. Not sure where it went, but she mentioned positive early results.

I’ve tried a variation of her diet and can report feeling significantly better, but long term compliance is difficult because of everything that gets cut out.

Diet & exercise is most definitely a part of many medical treatments, eg reducing saturated fat intake for heart conditions, but because compliance is incredibly difficult for the masses, it’s never the main focus, it’s just highly recommended.

My doc friends lament that patients want a pill when they clearly also need lifestyle changes. (eg obesity)

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#43

Post by Broken_Hippo »

treeman79 wrote: post #34
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

There is a good argument for “why not” with food. Has the fewest side effects. Do an elimination diet. If it doesn’t help. Well you ate boring food for a month. That sucks. If your symptoms ease up. Well then yea!

That's not really helpful.

Realistically, many forms of MS have symptoms that happen (suddenly), then heal up quite a bit, generally leaving differing amounts of nerve damage. In other words, if you do nothing, it will get better. Until it stops doing that, and if you aren't on medicine, your outlook isn't so wonderful. Unless you are lucky, that is.

I'm fairly lucky. I have few day to day symptoms. I was half blind once, though, and I've had fingers so numb that I had to inspect my hands after washing them to see if I did it correctly. Currently, if I bend my head down, I get an electric shock in my legs. It isn't really bothersome though.

If I go on a diet, I might not know anything changes. Well, until next year when I get my next MRI. I expect it to have no changes even if I don't diet, though, because modern medications are pretty wonderful.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#44

Post by epgui »

treeman79 wrote: post #33
epgui wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is true that diet can have a big impact on inflammation, I would caution against pushing this idea too far in the context of auto-immune diseases. I won't go into the details or talk about any specific condition because it's a complex topic, but you're better off combining a mediterranean / Indian / varied diet (the American diet is notoriously bad) with proper medication as prescribed by your treating physi…

There can be a 1-20 year timeframe between seeking treatment and getting a diagnosis and starting medication for autoimmune. Doctors constantly gas light people until it has progressed to late stages. These are people that should 100% work on diet as a solution until they can get proper diagnosis and start treatment. Instead I see the reverse. People scarfing on crap American diet. Trying drug after drug with mixed r…

Doctors gaslight people out of getting adequate care?

What have people done to you? What country do you live in?

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#45

Post by bwat48 »

Melatonic wrote: post #13
treeman79 wrote: post #6

Fun fact. Many autoimmune issues can be triggered / worsened by diet. There is an auto immune protocol diet that is all about reducing inflammation. Spend a few months on any of the support forms and you’ll see a pattern where people take years to be diagnosed. Most have a mystery illness for several years before it’s diagnosed. Then they go through years of various medication options with mixed results. Eventually m…

I have a lot of personal theories on this but if you have what I think you might have I would highly recommend trying a Japanese fermented food called Natto. It is some real weird stuff in terms of texture and smell but the benefits are massive at least for myself. I tried everything out there and saw tons of doctors and while some things helped consistently eating this stuff keeps my immune system in check better th…

Probably due to the bacillus subtilis probiotic that it contains

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#46

Post by Broken_Hippo »

user_7832 wrote: post #39
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

I would like to let you know (if you weren't already aware, if you are please ignore) of low dose naltrexone (LDN). While it's certainly not guaranteed to work, for some people it certainly does. I'd highly recommend reading more about it as while LDN is helpful for autoimmune conditions in general, MS particularly has a "higher" rate of success with it. Practical info - please do your own research, don't take my wor…

I'm not sure why I would go with something that isn't guaranteed to work when I can just go on a medicine that has a someone known outcome, which I have done. I pretty well just went on the medicine the doctor recommends, which is one of the drugs the overall medical guidelines here recommend. I have regular MRIs that monitor disease activity, and so far I've had no activity in the years since I started it.

The risk of doing something that won't work is too great, honestly. I don't have many day to day symptoms and pretty well do as I please. Disease activity means that I could have a much, much worse daily life. I'd like to keep walking and using my limbs and keep control of my bladder, thank you very much.

If the doctor recommends it as part of treatment, I'll do whatever they say. I'm not going to personally worry about it, though. I'd much rather just take a daily pill and go on with life, thank you.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#47

Post by Broken_Hippo »

itchyouch wrote: post #42
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So. Much. This. I have Multiple Sclerosis, and there are slews of sham diets out there. None, of course, have been actually proven effective even though one specific person definitely claims to have cured their MS through diet. It isn't even that I mind folks trying diets out - but the only thing (so far) that tends to lessen the disease over time are medicines. These medicines are expensive and tend to have side eff…

If you’re referring to Terry Wahls, years ago, she did mention starting trials for her diet for MS patients. Not sure where it went, but she mentioned positive early results. I’ve tried a variation of her diet and can report feeling significantly better, but long term compliance is difficult because of everything that gets cut out. Diet & exercise is most definitely a part of many medical treatments, eg reducing satu…

It is one thing if you need to lose weight and we aren't exactly making lifestyle changes easy especially if you are poor in somewhere like the US.

That isn't the case for MS. So far, a diet does nothing to decrease disease activity. The risk for doing something not proven (at this point) is increased disability.

And honestly, there is really no reason that state-run medicine programs (like in Norway, where I currently live) would pay for expensive medication when they could simply provide food for folks. The area I live in has a central kitchen that cooks and provides foods for the area nursing homes and other similar places: Providing a special diet wouldn't exactly be a huge cost and definitely cheaper than the medication. Heck, I could feed and cook myself for the price of medication.

Similarly, there is really no real reason insurances in the US would pay the monthly cost for the medicines if they could control it with a diet plan.

I'm not saying that diet and exercise does nothing: It is easier to overcome things if you have the ability to stay generally healthy and I do what I can. That said, I'm not willing to risk independence for an unproven diet. Especially if the person selling it claims miracles.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#48

Post by ggeorgovassilis »

zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

> I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state

Well into my 30s I was in perfect health: long endurance races, excellent eyesight, all vital KPIs on target and uninterrupted sleep. To me it felt like the only desirable state to be in and doctors agreed.

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#49

Post by Jeff_Brown »

jack_pp wrote: post #35
zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

> But now in the developed countries we live in an environment that is mostly cleaned from these obviously harmful things I don't agree, sugar is still as popular as ever and age old marketing scams like fruit smoothies being healthy still dominate the health narrative. People continue binging pizza and burgers and wash it down with soda even though they know it's obviously bad for them. Obesity is a big problem in t…

Isn't brake dust everywhere?

Re: Why is inflammation a dangerous necessity?

#50

Post by Jeff_Brown »

JacobThreeThree wrote: post #37
zby wrote: post #27

I think we need to let go the paradigm that there is a 'good health' state and that we just need to avoid stuff that leads to deviation from that state. We keep discovering that a thing is correlated with one bad symptom - but the lack of said thing is correlated with a different bad symptom and we believe that there is one perfect level that thing that would let us live with neither of these bad things. There probab…

Ironically, the very modern technology that has assisted us, has itself become a leading cause of death: medical errors and false positives

What are the takeaway implications of that for consumers of medicine? Understand statistics? Don't be first to try new tech? Whenever I try to second-guess my doctors I become hopeless about how hard it is to get them to state, and/or to find for myself, sources for their conclusions.

Also, a world in which nobody was willing to be first to try new tech seems like it would probably be worse for everybody.

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